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  • #31
    Originally posted by quikky View Post
    It's certainly up to the person, and it's no guarantee of anything. That said, a deficiency won't get corrected with a multivitamin quickly, since the concentration of a particular micronutrient won't be high in a broad supplement like that. So, it could be a while after taking the multivitamin that the deficiency corrects, at which point you might not notice, or might not attribute it to the multivitamin.

    Also, I think not feeling different is not a good indicator, necessarily. I mean I feel the same whether I eat bananas, avocados, berries, kale, carrots, or none of them. Does this indicate that these foods are useless for me?
    And of course no one associating the increased cancer rates / severity with the vitamins until they started looking at big groups of people. Things like that were associated with megadoses for years (centuries?) before anyone knew.
    “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
    Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by loafingcactus View Post
      And of course no one associating the increased cancer rates / severity with the vitamins until they started looking at big groups of people. Things like that were associated with megadoses for years (centuries?) before anyone knew.
      Multivitamins increase cancer rates/severity? I'd be interested in seeing the studies and how they were done.

      Comment


      • #33
        Megadose vitamins. The kind of vitamins in the brands suggested in this thread. PubMed is all yours, there are only like 42504843348.
        “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
        Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by loafingcactus View Post
          Megadose vitamins. The kind of vitamins in the brands suggested in this thread. PubMed is all yours, there are only like 42504843348.
          Do you have a couple good studies you could link that support this?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by quikky View Post
            Many deficiencies do not manifest themselves with clear health problems. A deficiency might make you more tired, or give you more cavities, or cause some joint aches, or make you sleep worse, etc. Being deficient in something can feel like part of life. This is the argument of adequate vs. optimal.
            which is why i suggested the op put some effort into checking micros. this will at least offer a ballpark perspective on what might be missing, rather than blindly hoping for the best without a clue.

            As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

            – Ernest Hemingway

            Comment


            • #36
              I've done a quick search on PubMed of "multivitamin cancer", and here are the related results from the first 20:

              Long-term multivitamin use may be cancer preventive in middle-aged and older men. Findings are part of first large-scale trial linking effects of common multivitamins with prevention of chronic diseases.
              multivitamin cancer - PubMed - NCBI

              Multivitamin use may reduce cancer risk.
              Multivitamin use may reduce cancer risk. [Harv Health Lett. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI

              Modest cancer prevention benefit with long-term multivitamin supplementation: Physicians' Health Study II results warrant cautious interpretation.
              Modest cancer prevention benefit with long-te... [Evid Based Med. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI

              Multivitamin-multimineral supplementation and mortality: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials.

              Conclusion: Multivitamin-multimineral treatment has no effect on mortality risk.

              Multivitamin-multimineral supplementation and... [Am J Clin Nutr. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI

              Multivitamins in the prevention of cancer in men: the Physicians' Health Study II randomized controlled trial.
              Conclusion In this large prevention trial of male physicians, daily multivitamin supplementation modestly but significantly reduced the risk of total cancer.

              Multivitamins in the prevention of cancer in men: the P... [JAMA. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

              Not exactly an exhaustive search, but if anything, they seem to support multivitamins and reduced cancer risk, if we can trust the studies.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                which is why i suggested the op put some effort into checking micros. this will at least offer a ballpark perspective on what might be missing, rather than blindly hoping for the best without a clue.
                It's certainly not a bad idea. Couple of problems though:

                - Is the food you are eating as nutritious as what you're inputting?
                - Are you checking for all the important micronutrients? Copper, magnesium, vitamin K2, etc?
                - If you eat a varied diet, how much data would represent average daily consumption?
                - Do you trust the RDAs?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Here is one relating mega-doses to increased cateracts:
                  High-dose supplements of vitamins C and E, low-dose multivitamins, and the risk of age-related cataract: a population-based prospective cohort study of men.
                  Zheng Selin J, Rautiainen S, Lindblad BE, Morgenstern R, Wolk A.
                  Source

                  Division of Nutritional Epidemiology, Institute of Environmental Medicine, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden.

                  Here is megadoses worstening AIDS
                  JAMA. 2012 Oct 17;308(15):1535-44. doi: 10.1001/jama.2012.13083.
                  Effect of high-dose vs standard-dose multivitamin supplementation at the initiation of HAART on HIV disease progression and mortality in Tanzania: a randomized controlled trial.
                  Isanaka S, Mugusi F, Hawkins C, Spiegelman D, Okuma J, Aboud S, Guerino C, Fawzi WW.
                  Source

                  Departments of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts 02115, USA. sisanaka@hsph.harvard.edu

                  Vit E and increased prostate cancer

                  JAMA. 2011 Oct 12;306(14):1549-56. doi: 10.1001/jama.2011.1437.
                  Vitamin E and the risk of prostate cancer: the Selenium and Vitamin E Cancer Prevention Trial (SELECT).
                  Klein EA, Thompson IM Jr, Tangen CM, Crowley JJ, Lucia MS, Goodman PJ, Minasian LM, Ford LG, Parnes HL, Gaziano JM, Karp DD, Lieber MM, Walther PJ, Klotz L, Parsons JK, Chin JL, Darke AK, Lippman SM, Goodman GE, Meyskens FL Jr, Baker LH.
                  Source

                  Department of Urology, Glickman Urological and Kidney Institute, Cleveland Clinic, Cleveland, Ohio 44195, USA. kleine@ccf.org

                  an overview of Vit A worstening lung cancer
                  Am J Clin Nutr. 2012 Nov;96(5):1204S-6S. doi: 10.3945/ajcn.112.034868. Epub 2012 Oct 10.
                  A global clinical view on vitamin A and carotenoids.
                  Sommer A, Vyas KS.
                  Source

                  Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Baltimore, MD 21209, USA. asommer@jhsph.edu
                  “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
                  Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    i said BALLPARK IDEA, did i not?

                    am not going to get into a google-war with you and we can both find plenty of links proving our points, so whatevs. keep spending money on pills and peeing most of it down the toilet.

                    i do hope that's the wost of it for you.



                    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/op...anted=all&_r=0

                    Vitamins: More May Be Too Many - New York Times
                    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                    – Ernest Hemingway

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by loafingcactus View Post
                      Here is one relating mega-doses to increased cateracts:
                      High-dose supplements of vitamins C and E, low-dose multivitamins, and the risk of age-related cataract: a population-based prospective cohort study of men.
                      Zheng Selin J, Rautiainen S, Lindblad BE, Morgenstern R, Wolk A.
                      Source

                      Division of Nutritional Epidemiology, Institute of Environmental Medicine, Karolinska Institutet, Stockholm, Sweden.

                      Here is megadoses worstening AIDS
                      JAMA. 2012 Oct 17;308(15):1535-44. doi: 10.1001/jama.2012.13083.
                      Effect of high-dose vs standard-dose multivitamin supplementation at the initiation of HAART on HIV disease progression and mortality in Tanzania: a randomized controlled trial.
                      Isanaka S, Mugusi F, Hawkins C, Spiegelman D, Okuma J, Aboud S, Guerino C, Fawzi WW.
                      Source

                      Departments of Nutrition, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston, Massachusetts 02115, USA. sisanaka@hsph.harvard.edu

                      Vit E and increased prostate cancer

                      JAMA. 2011 Oct 12;306(14):1549-56. doi: 10.1001/jama.2011.1437.
                      Vitamin E and the risk of prostate cancer: the Selenium and Vitamin E Cancer Prevention Trial (SELECT).
                      Klein EA, Thompson IM Jr, Tangen CM, Crowley JJ, Lucia MS, Goodman PJ, Minasian LM, Ford LG, Parnes HL, Gaziano JM, Karp DD, Lieber MM, Walther PJ, Klotz L, Parsons JK, Chin JL, Darke AK, Lippman SM, Goodman GE, Meyskens FL Jr, Baker LH.
                      Source

                      Department of Urology, Glickman Urological and Kidney Institute, Cleveland Clinic, Cleveland, Ohio 44195, USA. kleine@ccf.org

                      an overview of Vit A worstening lung cancer
                      Am J Clin Nutr. 2012 Nov;96(5):1204S-6S. doi: 10.3945/ajcn.112.034868. Epub 2012 Oct 10.
                      A global clinical view on vitamin A and carotenoids.
                      Sommer A, Vyas KS.
                      Source

                      Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Baltimore, MD 21209, USA. asommer@jhsph.edu
                      I've seen similar studies but most of them seem to supplement individual vitamins in high doses, such as A and E. They also often use the cheaper/pure synthetic versions. Don't know what this tells us about high quality multivitamins. I mean, I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find something, but I can also find you plenty of studies showing fat and red meat destroy your heart, and we know how reliable those are.

                      I'm not necessarily denying this could be true, but until I see something more conclusive, it's a guessing game.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                        i said BALLPARK IDEA, did i not?
                        I can tell you that you're in the "ballpark" if you don't have any obvious deficiency symptoms. If you're happy with that, then keep on keeping on.

                        Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                        am not going to get into a google-war with you and we can both find plenty of links proving our points, so whatevs. keep spending money on pills and peeing most of it down the toilet.

                        i do hope that's the wost of it for you.
                        Uhm, okay...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          lmao, so you're willing to disbelieve the "facts" about fat and red meat but think the assurances from the mega-vitamin peeps are without guile? jeebus.

                          dissonance, much?
                          As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                          – Ernest Hemingway

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                            lmao, so you're willing to disbelieve the "facts" about fat and red meat but think the assurances from the mega-vitamin peeps are without guile? jeebus.

                            dissonance, much?
                            What are the "assurances from the mega-vitamin peeps"?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              If multivitamins and supplements are a waste of money and are being flushed down the toilet; why are they being sold on this site??

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by John Watson View Post
                                If multivitamins and supplements are a waste of money and are being flushed down the toilet; why are they being sold on this site??
                                To make teh money so we can keep arguing for free.
                                “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
                                Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

                                Comment

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