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Intermittent Fasting - Has anyone else tried THE FAST DIET?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    If we equate your 1 meal a day fast, to a dead lift session in terms of stress on the body, ie dead lift session is about as stressful to your physical body as a 1 meal a day fast is to your metabolism (roughly). Why then are you doing the equivalent of dead lifting every day.
    I'm interested in how you're drawing this conclusion. Not arguing, just want to know how you're making this comparison.
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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    • #17
      Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
      Your body will reconfigure far easier from this way as it can recover easily. It is not forced to deal with stress chronically (IF everyday).
      mmm, allow me to disagree. I eat one meal a day and it does not feel like I am stressing my metabolism. If I felt so, I would certainly not have adopted this WOE. However, physical exertion every day would probably "kill" me so I restrict intense workouts to 1 to 2x week with sprints in-between. The rest is slow pace stuff (walking and biking).

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      • #18
        Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
        I'm interested in how you're drawing this conclusion. Not arguing, just want to know how you're making this comparison.
        Yep no worries.

        Everything we do on this planet involves stress.

        Stress is defined as "a movement away from homeostasis"

        Every movement from homeostasis requires rest to return to homeostasis. The bigger the movement the longer the recovery and time needed to get better at accommodating that stress.

        Some examples of "a movement from homeostasis";

        A dead lift
        A calorie deficit
        A change of job
        A bout of sun exposure
        A 30 minute jog
        A break up
        A semi poisonous food choice

        Look around there are heaps more.

        Another interesting sidenote;
        Chronic stress can be defined as a movement in homeostasis before the body has recovered from a previous similar movement in homeostasis, there are heaps of them too, an example might be a daily IF.


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        A little primal gem - My Success Story
        Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
          Yep no worries.

          Everything we do on this planet involves stress.

          Stress is defined as "a movement away from homeostasis"

          Every movement from homeostasis requires rest to return to homeostasis. The bigger the movement the longer the recovery and time needed to get better at accommodating that stress.

          Some examples of "a movement from homeostasis";

          A dead lift
          A calorie deficit
          A change of job
          A bout of sun exposure
          A 30 minute jog
          A break up
          A semi poisonous food choice

          Look around there are heaps more.

          Another interesting sidenote;
          Chronic stress can be defined as a movement in homeostasis before the body has recovered from a previous similar movement in homeostasis, there are heaps of them too, an example might be a daily IF.


          Sent from my iPhone
          Ah ok, I see what you're saying. However, are we talking IF such as the Leangains method of the 16 hour fast and the 8 hour eating window, or are we talking full day fasts? If we're talking about the former, then I disagree that it will accumulate to any amount of stress as to be problematic. But, if we're talking about full day fasts, then I agree.
          My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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          • #20
            Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
            Ah ok, I see what you're saying. However, are we talking IF such as the Leangains method of the 16 hour fast and the 8 hour eating window, or are we talking full day fasts? If we're talking about the former, then I disagree that it will accumulate to any amount of stress as to be problematic. But, if we're talking about full day fasts, then I agree.
            Here is one of the last parts of the stress theory that I didn't mention;

            There is a damage/failure threshold at the other end of all movements from homeostasis. This is the point where the object can no longer handle or accommodate that stress and it ends in damage or failure. The interesting thing about chronic stress is that each time you demand a new stress on a system that had not recovered from an old one this damage/failure threshold gets reduced (ie closer). To test this do the following;

            Squat down touch your toes then stand up again. Ok so you pretty much recover from that stress in a few seconds correct? Ie it is not a massive movement from homeostasis, it is well below the failure threshold. Now try doing that same squat consecutively you will eventually reach a point where your legs fail. What happened? You stressed your squat muscles again before the few seconds it took to recover, meanwhile the failure threshold lowered slightly. You did it again the same happened, this repeated all the way down until failure threshold met with the movement from homeostasis amount and you failed.
            If you did the same test with 100lbs on your shoulders you would've found that the movement from homeostasis was larger therefore recovery time was longer but because you where still doing them consecutively the failure threshold came down significantly quicker.

            This test holds true over many different stressors, try a calorie deficit and a larger calorie deficit. If you do them over the same time period (ie a day), you will reach metabolic downreg (failure) faster with the larger stress.

            Now with leangains who knows if it is a movement from homeostasis, my bet is it is, how much of a movement is it I don't know, so I don't know recovery timeframes. My guess is it is a little longer than a day, so in my books each consecutive leangains fast will bring the damage/ failure threshold down ever so slowly until it is reached. This could be many years away or only weeks it depends on the persons homeostasis.


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            A little primal gem - My Success Story
            Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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            • #21
              If your gonna study chronic stress and understand its implications today I recommend looking into theories on allostatic load. Allostatic load - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

              However, be careful in taking such a rigid definition as to what you think constitutes a stress to the system. Just like metabolism "stress" in terms of systems is a moving target. Perhaps to one person a 24 hr fast every day is a stress.... but its just as likely that there are individual circumstances where eating anything more than 1x/day would be considered even more stressful thus creating a net greater allostatic load.

              The theory of reducing manageable stresses to allow better allocation of limited body resources and hence improved health is only practical if we can determine on an individual basis what those stressors really are.

              "Four conditions that lead to allostatic load are:
              Repeated frequency of stress responses to multiple novel stressors;
              Failure to habituate to repeated stressors of the same kind;
              Failure to turn off each stress response in a timely manner due to delayed shut down; and
              Inadequate response that leads to compensatory hyperactivity of other mediators."

              If you actually analyze each of those four elements you can see how convoluted and individualized monitoring "stress" actually is.
              Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-16-2013, 11:21 AM.

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              • #22
                I am presently doing Alternate Day Fasting. (There a thread about it on the Nutrition page, that you might like to look at.) It is based on the work of Dr. Johnson, so it is often known as Johnson's Up Day Down Day (JUDDD).

                I've had great success with it, but I am looking to lose a big chunk of weight, not the last few pounds. It is also not a quick method. (Average loss is one pound per week.) But it IS very sustainable, and I have found it is very easy to come back from 'slips' using this method. I stick to low-carb primal, but the times I have strayed from it on my Up Days, I am able to get back on track with no difficulty.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by dkJames View Post
                  mmm, allow me to disagree. I eat one meal a day and it does not feel like I am stressing my metabolism. If I felt so, I would certainly not have adopted this WOE. However, physical exertion every day would probably "kill" me so I restrict intense workouts to 1 to 2x week with sprints in-between. The rest is slow pace stuff (walking and biking).
                  Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                  If your gonna study chronic stress and understand its implications today I recommend looking into theories on allostatic load. Allostatic load - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  However, be careful in taking such a rigid definition as to what you think constitutes a stress to the system. Just like metabolism "stress" in terms of systems is a moving target. Perhaps to one person a 24 hr fast every day is a stress.... but its just as likely that there are individual circumstances where eating anything more than 1x/day would be considered even more stressful thus creating a net greater allostatic load.
                  Exactly. I tried the warrior diet before going primal and failed miserably. Now I eat one meal a day and I would have to stuff in anything more. So the "moving target" NH talks about even moves within one individual.

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                  • #24
                    I got that book. I thought the concept of two fast days a week was good, however I did NOT like the 500 calories. That just feels way too low to me and I have trouble sleeping. But on a fasting day I can usually stay at close to 1,000. I'm quite overweight and I'm finding that this is a useful tactic.
                    Out of context quote for the day:

                    Clearly Gorbag is so awesome he should be cloned, reproducing in the normal manner would only dilute his awesomeness. - Urban Forager

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                    • #25
                      My definition of stress is not rigid, it is just viewed from a long way out, an overview not many people take. I can apply my stress theories to anything on the planet, rock to human.

                      In reply, the last part of stress is that both the homeostasis and the damage threshold can be moved in live things. In fact this is what we spend our whole lives trying to do... Bettering our homeostasis and damage thresholds, so we may conquer that stress easier next time. This means that our stress response can be vastly different between people, it depends what we have been exposed to. The 300 lb barbel that would damage (crush) me, causes a strengthening response in a 10 year lifting veteran.
                      Although we don't have unlimited capacity for stress handling, at one point we all break.


                      Sent from my iPhone
                      A little primal gem - My Success Story
                      Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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