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What to do or say re: undernourished vegan baby?

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  • #91
    I wonder if the OP is ever going to come back and enlighten us on what comes next in this baby drama?

    I hope the grandma did something like talk to her son about his crazy wife's baby-harming fat phobia. :P
    yay!

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    • #92
      Wouldn't it be funny if the OP was a troll and made this topic just to see what kind of fights and strawman arguments would break out?
      My Blog where I talk about my experiences with improving my health and life
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      • #93
        Originally posted by Cyborcat View Post
        Wouldn't it be funny if the OP was a troll and made this topic just to see what kind of fights and strawman arguments would break out?
        It would have been funnier if Primal Hunter had stayed funny, but she still gets credit for best out of the gate.

        This thread is the absurdity of the internet. They are going to hold the Zimmerman verdict just for this thread.
        “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
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        • #94
          Originally posted by loafingcactus View Post
          It would have been funnier if Primal Hunter had stayed funny, but she still gets credit for best out of the gate.
          Indeed. Trying to read through that post at work without laughing my ass off was almost physically painful.
          My Blog where I talk about my experiences with improving my health and life
          (I try to update ... once in awhile)


          Rimmer - Step up to Red Alert!
          Kryten - Sir ... are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.
          (Red Dwarf)

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          • #95
            Originally posted by qqemokitty View Post
            I wonder if the OP is ever going to come back and enlighten us on what comes next in this baby drama?
            maybe she went to kidnap the baby? but she has to keep switching forms of transit so nobody suspects anything.
            As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

            – Ernest Hemingway

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            • #96
              Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
              It's an underweight baby (bottom 1% of bodyweight), about a year old, never seen a doctor. Plus the mom is worried about the baby (again, bottom 1% of bodyweight for a child her age) getting fat.

              If she was primal, I'd have issue with the above. The vegan diet is irrelevant. Period.
              My quick google search said that 15-19 pounds was normal at 1 year old. Many moms are worried about their baby getting fat. I agree that not having seen a doctor is a problem (and would be even if the baby appeared perfectly healthy). I just have a problem with those who seem to be saying "Oh shit, a vegan reproduced! Call Child Protective Services!"

              Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
              Oh, and even if they're breastfeeding this child (which is not how the original post reads)
              That's exactly how it reads. OP says the baby is breastfed.

              Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
              [vegan diets are bad for babies]
              I don't think CPS is going to care about those links. I agree that a vegan diet is not a good choice, but we're outnumbered by people who think it's extremely healthy. It's strange to call CPS because the baby is on what is commonly perceived as an extremely healthy diet. It would make more sense to report someone for feeding their baby saturated fat and denying them whole grains. BTW, have you called them yet?

              Originally posted by janie View Post
              If there is the slightest chance that the baby is in danger there is no such thing as a frivolous complaint. The mother seems unreceptive to suggestions and apparently has her own "fear of fat" issues that shes dangerously applying to the diet of a growing baby.
              There are a lot of babies in the world. Have you called CPS on behalf of all of them? "The slightest chance" is a pretty low bar.

              Here's what should happen:

              OP can't do anything directly, but should put pressure on grandma. Grandma should talk to the parents and explain why a baby needs to see a doctor (maybe not even mentioning the weight problem at first). If they blow it off, then she should say that it's not a joke, and she'll call CPS if they don't take the baby to a doctor. And then she'll have to decide whether the baby is really in enough danger to warrant destroying the relationship.

              Keep in mind that it could all be a big misunderstanding. Maybe the mom said 15 lbs when she meant 19. Maybe the 15 lb figure is outdated, and it's really 25 now. Maybe the grandmother is the one with a warped sense of what a baby should look like, and the baby is actually fat. Maybe when the mom said the baby has never seen a doctor, she meant specifically for the weight issue, but she's seen a doctor many times for other reasons. Maybe she hasn't been to a doctor, but the mom would gladly take her if she only knew she was supposed to.

              That's why the grandmother should talk to the parents rather than doing a chickenshit end run. You don't call CPS every time you disagree with someone's parenting style. You do it when you confirm there's a major problem that can't be solved any other way.

              Oh, and what if they take the baby to a doctor, who happens to be a...wait for it...vegan!

              Originally posted by loafingcactus View Post
              It would have been funnier if Primal Hunter had stayed funny, but she still gets credit for best out of the gate.
              Thanks. I thought it would convince some people not to overreact. Oh well.
              "Don't go in there, General, it's a trap! That's a grain chamber. It makes people like you into people like me."

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              • #97
                Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
                "She just turned 1, and she only weighs 15 pounds."

                "That's on the low end of normal, but still normal. "
                This was a funny post, but I just wanted to chime in and say that 15lb isn't normal. Being below the 5th percentile is a cause for concern. This child is around the 1st percentile for weight given her age.

                Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
                There are a lot of babies in the world. Have you called CPS on behalf of all of them?
                And, the stupid begins.

                Originally posted by PrimalHunter
                So you guys aren't complaining about the vegan thing? What then, mom's just not allowing enough nipple access?
                No, the problem isn't being vegan per-se. It's maltreatment of a child. That child is probably ok as long as she's still breastfeeding. But typically babies get weaned around that age....
                Last edited by magicmerl; 07-11-2013, 06:33 PM.
                Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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                • #98
                  If the baby is breastfed, that would be the ideal nutrition so maybe there is something else wrong with it. Keeping the baby from eating bread or sugar sounds like a good idea to me.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by abstract View Post
                    If the baby is breastfed, that would be the ideal nutrition
                    Except if the mother is a vegan, which she is. You can't make nutrients out of nothing.

                    Originally posted by abstract View Post
                    so maybe there is something else wrong with it. Keeping the baby from eating bread or sugar sounds like a good idea to me.
                    Yeah, I don't think that's the issue. The issue is that there's no such thing as a healthy vegan baby, or a healthy baby who's breast-fed by vegans.
                    The Champagne of Beards

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                    • If the baby is breastfed, that would be the ideal nutrition so maybe there is something else wrong with it. Keeping the baby from eating bread or sugar sounds like a good idea to me.
                      Exactly, if you have an underweight baby, the responsible thing to do is recognize that and take the baby to a doctor. Which the mother will not do. Which is wherein the problem lies.

                      It could be that vegan mama milk isn't cutting it. Or it could be a lot of different issues. But the mom just sitting there and not taking the baby to get things checked out is not OK. Like, if you were eating what you thought was a great diet, but were wasting away, wouldn't you seek the opinion of a professional? Maybe it's your diet or a tumor or a thyroid issue. But you wouldn't just let yourself fail to thrive.

                      So.... the mom is essentially irresponsible for failing to get the baby medical help to find out why she is not developing like a normal child. That's why intervention is needed because the mother is either too stupid to recognize the appearance of a healthy baby or is not concerned about the health of her child.

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                      • Unless the grandma is a nosey, nothing to do, mess starter.... Not like that doesn't happen. I'm in complete agreement with Primal Hunter. And lots of Mammas don't stop bf'ing until around 2, that not a big deal.

                        The OP has never even seen the child so...

                        And there is such a thing as small kids, short and small. Those guidelines put lots of babies overweight and underweight.

                        I don't know much about vegan bf'ing so maybe you are all right and a baby cannot thrive on it. I do know that when I was in college many people I studied with we're vegans and also parents. We were all studying to be Doctors and nobody thought being a vegan was anything but the healthiest diet ever.
                        Didn't work for me, obviously. I also keep in contact with a few of my classmates and they are still vegan and think eating meat every day is gonna send me, my husband and my kids a few/several yrs early to our graves. And unless someone is celiac many doctors think its totally unhealthy not to feed your kids grains/wheat.

                        I think that OP was a troll anyway...

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                        • Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                          Chicken or egg?
                          Haha
                          well then

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                          • Vegetarian diets and B12 Deficiency

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                            • Uh - I never took my kids to well baby checkups. They usually went something like this - weigh baby, measure baby, tell me I should be giving them baby cereals. I could weigh my kids on my own - no need to waste an hour or two of my day to take my kids to the Dr. for things I already know/can do on my own/am just going to ignore!

                              Also, my youngest refused solids and was exclusively breastfed until 17 months. Babies don't really need any nutrition other than breastmilk until they are a year old. Their bodies can not properly digest food/absorb the nutrients in it until a year.

                              I'm not saying there isn't anything wrong with the child - but some of the comments made here seem a little alarmist.

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                              • Originally posted by Mamame View Post
                                Uh - I never took my kids to well baby checkups. They usually went something like this - weigh baby, measure baby, tell me I should be giving them baby cereals. I could weigh my kids on my own - no need to waste an hour or two of my day to take my kids to the Dr. for things I already know/can do on my own/am just going to ignore!
                                Sometimes going to the doctor is a waste of time and money.

                                Also, my youngest refused solids and was exclusively breastfed until 17 months. Babies don't really need any nutrition other than breastmilk until they are a year old. Their bodies can not properly digest food/absorb the nutrients in it until a year.
                                My daughter was exclusively breastfed until about a year, when she started eating adult food on her own. We didn't deny her food previously. But if she picked up something and put it in her mouth, it usually came back out again.

                                Americans are obsessive about the need for stuffing processed "baby food" into the mouths of babies, as they are about all sorts of developmental stages that are neurologically controlled. It is as though they would never start eating solid food/wean from breast-feeding/wean from bottle-feeding/become toilet-trained/sleep through the night/speak unless they are forced to by adults.

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