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What to do or say re: undernourished vegan baby?

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  • #76
    "Child Protective Services, how can I help you?"

    "Yes, I'd like to report that a baby I've never seen is allegedly not following The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson."

    "Oh, thank God you called when you did!"

    "Really?"

    "No, I'm being sarcastic. What the fuck is The Primal Blueprint?"

    "Nice language. It's a set of ten laws that Grok followed to ensure optimal gene expression."

    "Who's Grok? Is that the baby's father?"

    "No, Grok was a caveman who lived 10,000 years ago. Am I speaking to an idiot?"

    "My bad. So how has the baby angered Grok?"

    "The baby is violating primal law #1: eat lots of plants and animals. She's on a vegan diet."

    "Oh, that's so healthy. It really helps to keep your saturated fat and cholesterol down."

    "No, that's just conventional wisdom. You can actually eat unlimited saturated fat once you're a fat burning beast. And you don't have to worry about cholesterol - it just doesn't matter. It's the refined carbs and rancid seed oils you have to watch out for."

    "Oh yeah, my sister's doing the low carb thing. She tries to stay under 50 grams a day."

    "No, the carb curve is a myth! Mark was wrong about the carb curve and the insulin theory of obesity, but obviously he's right about everything else!"

    "Who's Mark? Is he the baby's father?"

    "I hope not!"

    "Anyway, you're concerned because the baby's on a vegan diet?"

    "Yeah, they didn't even let her have birthday cake."

    "You think she needs birthday cake?"

    "It can be part of her 20 percent. Look, a healthy diet consists of meat, eggs, fruits, vegetables, and birthday cake. I don't see what's so hard to understand."

    "So why are you concerned about the baby?"

    "She just turned 1, and she only weighs 15 pounds."

    "That's on the low end of normal, but still normal. Is she being breastfed?"

    "Yeah, but she looks very skinny."

    "But you've never seen her."

    "No, it's my friend's granddaughter, and she lives 500 miles away from the baby. Anyway, people on Mark's forum said that I had to report this."

    "I don't see what the problem is. Did the baby's doctor say anything?"

    "They've never taken her to a doctor."

    "Now that's a problem. Babies need regular doctor visits. If they won't take her, we might have to intervene. But you really don't want that if it can be avoided. Talk to your friend, have her talk to the parents and make sure the baby sees a doctor. If they refuse, then call us back. Child Protective Services is a last resort."

    "OK, I guess that makes sense. Now I know."

    "And knowing is half the battle!"
    "Don't go in there, General, it's a trap! That's a grain chamber. It makes people like you into people like me."

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by zoebird View Post
      No, the point was for the OP's friend to take a community approach, rather than taking an authority approach *at this point in time*.

      The reasoning behind this is similar to Deine's experience. And this family's experience.

      Once you call the authorities, the bureaucracy takes over. What happens then is really a matter of 30-day notices, having to file things properly, and the opinion of the person who is on the case -- which may be pressured by the income that placing children creates for the department and the state (look up what happens to native children in the Dakotas and how that ties in with money).

      My core value is that children are taken care of and that families -- if they are healthy -- stay together. That is, in the case of my depressed neighbor, she could have most definitely had her children removed from her home and in the system. Then what? How was that going to solve the problem for her or her children?

      Yes, maybe she gets help through the state and gets on her feet and gets her children back -- but that may not be the case. And foster care isn't pretty either. Lots of children are abused in foster care.

      As such, knowing what community services are available for families (that are non-governmental, as well as governmental ones), or knowing who can access them (why I went to catholic social services in the first instance) can help keep children healthy and families together.

      To me, CPS is a last port of call, a last ditch effort.

      I'm not saying that *you* have to volunteer or do anything. I'm just saying that when we are in community, we can take a community approach.
      The idea that a grandmother who lives 500 miles away from her grandchild and rarely sees the child can mobilize to create a large community of organized and co-ordinated caring volunteers to help that mother and child is out of the realm of possible. She is not in "the community". She has no connections there. (Lots of people don't have a multitude of connections to potential volunteers even in the communities where they live.) This is no different from suggesting that nothing be done.

      Comment


      • #78
        Annnnnd Primal Hunter For The Win! :-)
        “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
        Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

        Comment


        • #79
          I think all zoebird is saying is that the grandma should talk to the parents and help them solve the problem on their own before resorting to calling the authorities. This isn't the kind of situation where the parents need a community of volunteers to help them anyway. All that is really needed is an email and phone call to her son.

          Lmao, PrimalHunter!

          My journal

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          • #80
            I can't believe we're even having a debate whether it's okay to let a child starve and suffer.

            But do go on about the parents' right to be ignorant jackasses some more, that's the real issue here.
            “Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.” Rumi

            Comment


            • #81
              Right. Because we know for a fact that the child is starving and suffering from hearsay when the OP hasn't even seen the child in question yet. Shoot first, ask questions later. It's the great American way!
              F 28/5'4/100 lbs

              "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."

              Comment


              • #82
                Not a soul on here has commended the parents. A few have mentioned that we are hearing this story third hand possibly through a biased pov (mil). Isn't "too thin" a common complaint?

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
                  "Child Protective Services, how can I help you?"

                  "Yes, I'd like to report that a baby I've never seen is allegedly not following The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson."

                  "Oh, thank God you called when you did!"

                  "Really?"

                  "No, I'm being sarcastic. What the fuck is The Primal Blueprint?"

                  "Nice language. It's a set of ten laws that Grok followed to ensure optimal gene expression."

                  "Who's Grok? Is that the baby's father?"

                  "No, Grok was a caveman who lived 10,000 years ago. Am I speaking to an idiot?"

                  "My bad. So how has the baby angered Grok?"

                  "The baby is violating primal law #1: eat lots of plants and animals. She's on a vegan diet."

                  "Oh, that's so healthy. It really helps to keep your saturated fat and cholesterol down."

                  "No, that's just conventional wisdom. You can actually eat unlimited saturated fat once you're a fat burning beast. And you don't have to worry about cholesterol - it just doesn't matter. It's the refined carbs and rancid seed oils you have to watch out for."

                  "Oh yeah, my sister's doing the low carb thing. She tries to stay under 50 grams a day."

                  "No, the carb curve is a myth! Mark was wrong about the carb curve and the insulin theory of obesity, but obviously he's right about everything else!"

                  "Who's Mark? Is he the baby's father?"

                  "I hope not!"

                  "Anyway, you're concerned because the baby's on a vegan diet?"

                  "Yeah, they didn't even let her have birthday cake."

                  "You think she needs birthday cake?"

                  "It can be part of her 20 percent. Look, a healthy diet consists of meat, eggs, fruits, vegetables, and birthday cake. I don't see what's so hard to understand."

                  "So why are you concerned about the baby?"

                  "She just turned 1, and she only weighs 15 pounds."

                  "That's on the low end of normal, but still normal. Is she being breastfed?"

                  "Yeah, but she looks very skinny."

                  "But you've never seen her."

                  "No, it's my friend's granddaughter, and she lives 500 miles away from the baby. Anyway, people on Mark's forum said that I had to report this."

                  "I don't see what the problem is. Did the baby's doctor say anything?"

                  "They've never taken her to a doctor."

                  "Now that's a problem. Babies need regular doctor visits. If they won't take her, we might have to intervene. But you really don't want that if it can be avoided. Talk to your friend, have her talk to the parents and make sure the baby sees a doctor. If they refuse, then call us back. Child Protective Services is a last resort."

                  "OK, I guess that makes sense. Now I know."

                  "And knowing is half the battle!"
                  Because the issue isn't the fact the child's very possibly being starved to death, but that it isn't eating primal? What thread have you been you reading?
                  The Champagne of Beards

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Primal Hunter-
                    If you think that a baby being possibly starved is funny, then I think you are one sad soul.
                    Starting Weight: 197.5
                    Current Weight: 123
                    Far healthier!

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                      Because the issue isn't the fact the child's very possibly being starved to death, but that it isn't eating primal? What thread have you been you reading?
                      So you guys aren't complaining about the vegan thing? What then, mom's just not allowing enough nipple access?
                      "Don't go in there, General, it's a trap! That's a grain chamber. It makes people like you into people like me."

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by janie View Post
                        Primal Hunter-
                        If you think that a baby being possibly starved is funny, then I think you are one sad soul.
                        A starved baby is not funny, but neither is filing a frivolous complaint with Child Protective Services.
                        "Don't go in there, General, it's a trap! That's a grain chamber. It makes people like you into people like me."

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          So you guys aren't complaining about the vegan thing? What then, mom's just not allowing enough nipple access?
                          It's an underweight baby (bottom 1% of bodyweight), about a year old, never seen a doctor. Plus the mom is worried about the baby (again, bottom 1% of bodyweight for a child her age) getting fat.

                          If she was primal, I'd have issue with the above. The vegan diet is irrelevant. Period.

                          http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                          Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
                            So you guys aren't complaining about the vegan thing? What then, mom's just not allowing enough nipple access?
                            Of course we're complaining about the "vegan thing," for which the technical term is "starving your baby to death."

                            http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/op...anck.html?_r=0

                            Oh, and even if they're breastfeeding this child (which is not how the original post reads), a vegan's breast milk lacks the vitamins and minerals that the child needs. Breast fed children of vegan mothers also die as a result.

                            http://evolutionaryparenting.com/bei...infant-safety/
                            Last edited by RichMahogany; 07-11-2013, 01:05 PM.
                            The Champagne of Beards

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                              It's an underweight baby (bottom 1% of bodyweight), about a year old, never seen a doctor.
                              I don't know ... I see good reasons to be concerned. This baby should be examined by someone.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by PrimalHunter View Post
                                A starved baby is not funny, but neither is filing a frivolous complaint with Child Protective Services.
                                If there is the slightest chance that the baby is in danger there is no such thing as a frivolous complaint. The mother seems unreceptive to suggestions and apparently has her own "fear of fat" issues that shes dangerously applying to the diet of a growing baby.
                                Starting Weight: 197.5
                                Current Weight: 123
                                Far healthier!

                                Comment

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