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  • #76
    Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    I'm sure this is great, but I just can't listen to anything with Jimmy Moore on it. The guy just pushes my buttons for some reason.
    Except he's just kind of acting as a moderator. He's not asking the questions, nor is he providing the answers. Diane Sanfilippo is doing most of the advice dishing. And she's spent a good portion of her career studying digestion.

    Oh and she talks about the whole Matt Stone thing with digestion as well, relevant with the other thread going around.
    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

    Comment


    • #77
      You keep referring to going back to eating "normal". What exactly is that? I would like to know when you went VLC, how much of a change in your diet was it? There are plenty of people here that are healthy enough to do just about anything they want with their diets and still feel good. You are obviously not in that category. If it's weight loss you're after, then not eating too many carbs is probably a smart thing but the biggest component of weight loss is definitely calories.

      I'm a believer that our bodies do not like big rapid changes. Some people can tolerate large swings but most can't. Not that I would recommend another shot at VLC, but if you were to try it again you could slowly move in that direction over a few months.
      Some of you may die, but that is a risk I'm willing to take.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by abel View Post
        It sure still works for some people, but Dear Mark, I literally almost died because blindly taking your advice.
        And that is what went wrong (emphasis mine).
        Depression Lies

        Comment


        • #79
          I've just read this whole thread (it's been a very long time since I've read an entire thread on this forum) and I think the big issue is the title, as others have already mentioned. It's never a good idea to go blasting into a community, speaking negatively about a leader or principle, especially with information missing.

          So the issues, to me, are:
          1) Sensationalist title
          2) Lack of self responsibility
          3) Lack of information

          Now with the self responsibility thing, I can see from your further info post why you kept going even though it wasn't working. I've done the same thing too, for example when trying to eat more coconut products. First I tried to make a stirfry with coconut milk, and I had terrible stomach pain and unfortunate toilet consequences. But I thought maybe it was the mushrooms or something else, so I'll try again. I made a recipe with coconut flour and shredded coconut - I got a rash on my face (which I've never had before). At this point I obviously had suspicions but I bought coconut milk again, to try one more time. When I opened it, the smell literally made me want to be sick (It hadn't the first time I smelt it). I took this as a definite sign that my body really did not like coconut and I threw it away.

          Mark, and many members of this forum, love coconut products. Mark always advocates coconut products. I'm sure I can find a statement where he would claim humans would survive if they cooked with coconut in every meal.

          BUT. I don't blame Mark for that. It's simply my body. There are always outliers. There are always exceptions. Do you know how tedious it would be to write any kind of nutritional article if you listed every single possible exception? Because there are legitimately endless possibilities for how people could react to anything anyone who writes about nutrition could say.

          The problem is how you've come into this way of eating, or the way you've approached nutritional research in general, or even the way you interpret advice in general. Most people have a built-in awareness factor that tells them "this is general advice and there could be exceptions". Mark doesn't need to state that every time. So I know you have a problem with his advice being dangerous but realise that 99% of us read the same thing you did and did not interpret it how you did. You decided you wanted to try zero carb through other research/thoughts. Then when you read Marks statement that we have no requirement for carbs, that fit the thoughts you had already created about going zero carb.

          No one is responsible for your health but you.

          I can see you have had big problems and wanted to warn people, and that's absolutely fair enough. But there is nothing wrong with Marks general advice about carbs. You're clinging to a reason to justify your actions that lead to this negative outcome. Telling us we could survive without them is just to get across the point that they don't need to be as massive a part of our diet as they currently are (for most people).

          If this experience has told you that zero carb, or even low carb, isn't right for you, then that's absolutely fine. There are plenty of others who will agree with you. You've conducted some n=1 research and found what doesn't work for you. But again, that's not Marks fault, and it's not because of his statement.

          I hope you find a way of eating soon that can lead you to the health outcomes you desire
          Current weight lost: 82.9lb (37.6kg)

          Current PRs:
          Bench: 45kg/99lb
          Squat: 100kg/220lb
          Deadlift: 120kg/265lb

          My blog
          My journal

          Comment


          • #80
            ^Great post on all points.
            Depression Lies

            Comment


            • #81
              Apparently you didn't read "The Primal Blueprint" nor Mark's suggestions. Mark suggested Low Carb which is 100 - 150g carbs / day.
              "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by umm7 View Post
                I did steak and eggs with my dad for a month or two at a time (several times throughout my life) and that actually cleared up my constipation. Sounds like you shouldn't do any diet without supervision, most people would never allow themselves to keep doing something that didn't work let alone dangerous.
                Found similarly here too. When I have had issues with constipation on Primal/Paleo it's been when I've been going overboard on course leafy greens like trying to eat several hundred grams of curly kale a day for days on end

                Eating steak and eggs, everything flowed smoothly, just nowhere near as frequently.
                If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

                Originally posted by tfarny
                If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

                Comment


                • #83
                  Sorry you had trouble trying whatever you tried. Try Primal Blueprint next time.
                  Crohn's, doing SCD

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by namelesswonder View Post
                    ^Great post on all points.
                    +1 great post nixxy!
                    If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

                    Originally posted by tfarny
                    If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by pabs View Post
                      I have had issues with both VLC and constipation in the recent past, so I'm following this thread with interest. Great info, Owen!

                      Abel, you're not alone. A lot of us have gone down the VLC path with the best intentions and not faired so well. Don't abandon your quest for health, you are just going thru a phase of finding out what works for you and what doesn't. Even if you're not going low carb, and are simply eating whole foods, you're already doing yourself a good favour. Rock on, bruv/sis!
                      Thanks - I tried! Simply eating whole foods - exactly - it's all we need to do unless there are very specific goals and we are able to tolerate VLC. Some of Peter Attia's stuff on this subject is very informative. He is someone who does low carb, but crucially he explains how and why.
                      Healthy is the new wealthy.

                      http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        I have not read the whole thread but the title makes me smile
                        I would just say this to the OP: YOU almost killed yourself by experimenting with a diet tweak suggested by someone else. Don't blame anybody but you for your choices, thanks.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          I'm often surprised at just how many of the forum members read PB and come away with a laser-precise focus of what the PB diet is. When I first read it I was surprised at how widely the suggestions ranged and how many suggestions there were depending on your goals. So it baffles me that people argue over the tiniest portion of an argument Mark was making as if he told the entire human population to do that one thing. I love heavy dairy and get great results tailoring my PB that way. Others report various weight gain, energy loss and health issues when including dairy into their PB so they go without. Both of these diets are as per Mark suggests. PB is flexible like that.

                          OP, depending on your current state of health you may need to ease into things for year or two before trying zero or vlcarbs?

                          I adapted first day to a "standard" PB diet. It suited me suited incredibly well. It was partially explained when I got my 23andme.com genetic results back. Among other diet related genetics I had a higher than usual propensity towards celiac disease, and no indication of lactose intolerance. It helped explain why a heavily dairy based version of PB (not milk though, just cream, cheese, yoghurt) and a complete lack of gluten suited me so well. It also highlighted just how individual people's response to PB can be.

                          So OP, re-read PB with an eye to identifying the flexibility. Define your diet based on your current health needs and run with it. Sounds like zero carb isn't for you just yet.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            For the OP. The below message is quoted from the faq's on Gutsense.org I recommend perusing that site and/or reading the book "Fiber Menace" (I haven't read it yet though).

                            "Why do Paleo and Atkins-style diets (i.e. low-carbohydrates) cause constipation?"

                            "Fiber is derived from plants (fruits, vegetables, grains) and plant-based processed foods, such as cereals, breads, and pasta. Plants and plant-based food happen to be a major source of carbohydrate in the diet. Thus, any diet that is low in carbohydrates is also low in fiber, and this leads to a rapid reduction in stool size and weight."

                            "If a person isn't dependent on fiber to move the bowels, this reduction of size and weight actually improves regularity and eases bowel movements. On the other hand, if fiber dependence is already present — a condition manifested as latent constipation, — regular bowel movements are disrupted because the “plunging” effect of the fiber-heavy stools has gone."

                            "In general terms, if you experience constipation after a sudden reduction of fiber in your diet, it means that you are already affected by a range of bowel disorders of different severity, such as disbacteriosis, enlarged internal hemorrhoids, enlarged colon and rectum, and anorectal nerve damage."

                            Personally, I found that 300mg of magnesium citrate twice a day helps to keep things moving along for both myself and my wife. I wound up having hernia surgery a few months after going PB. I suspect I already had a mild hernia before starting PB and the sudden loss of fiber from my system caused severe constipation which evidently caused the hernia to blow out. I don't blame anyone except myself for not paying attention to the signs that were present. I was a "victim" of my own ignorance.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              0-50 grams/day – Ketosis and Accelerated Fat Burning

                              Acceptable for a day or two of Intermittent Fasting towards aggressive weight loss efforts, provided adequate protein, fat and supplements are consumed otherwise. May be ideal for many diabetics. Not necessarily recommended as a long-term practice for otherwise healthy people due to resultant deprivation of high nutrient value vegetables and fruits.

                              This is Mark's recommendation in the carbohydrate curve........

                              "If you're not the problem, there is no solution"



                              Read more: How many carbs should I eat each day? | Mark's Daily Apple
                              The life I have today is far better than I deserve.......

                              M, 58, 6'0
                              SW - 192
                              CW - 180
                              GW - 165-170

                              Current addiction: ice cream (and sugar in general).....doing battle with it!

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by nixxy View Post
                                I've just read this whole thread (it's been a very long time since I've read an entire thread on this forum) and I think the big issue is the title, as others have already mentioned. It's never a good idea to go blasting into a community, speaking negatively about a leader or principle, especially with information missing.

                                So the issues, to me, are:
                                1) Sensationalist title
                                2) Lack of self responsibility
                                3) Lack of information

                                Now with the self responsibility thing, I can see from your further info post why you kept going even though it wasn't working. I've done the same thing too, for example when trying to eat more coconut products. First I tried to make a stirfry with coconut milk, and I had terrible stomach pain and unfortunate toilet consequences. But I thought maybe it was the mushrooms or something else, so I'll try again. I made a recipe with coconut flour and shredded coconut - I got a rash on my face (which I've never had before). At this point I obviously had suspicions but I bought coconut milk again, to try one more time. When I opened it, the smell literally made me want to be sick (It hadn't the first time I smelt it). I took this as a definite sign that my body really did not like coconut and I threw it away.

                                Mark, and many members of this forum, love coconut products. Mark always advocates coconut products. I'm sure I can find a statement where he would claim humans would survive if they cooked with coconut in every meal.

                                BUT. I don't blame Mark for that. It's simply my body. There are always outliers. There are always exceptions. Do you know how tedious it would be to write any kind of nutritional article if you listed every single possible exception? Because there are legitimately endless possibilities for how people could react to anything anyone who writes about nutrition could say.

                                The problem is how you've come into this way of eating, or the way you've approached nutritional research in general, or even the way you interpret advice in general. Most people have a built-in awareness factor that tells them "this is general advice and there could be exceptions". Mark doesn't need to state that every time. So I know you have a problem with his advice being dangerous but realise that 99% of us read the same thing you did and did not interpret it how you did. You decided you wanted to try zero carb through other research/thoughts. Then when you read Marks statement that we have no requirement for carbs, that fit the thoughts you had already created about going zero carb.

                                No one is responsible for your health but you.

                                I can see you have had big problems and wanted to warn people, and that's absolutely fair enough. But there is nothing wrong with Marks general advice about carbs. You're clinging to a reason to justify your actions that lead to this negative outcome. Telling us we could survive without them is just to get across the point that they don't need to be as massive a part of our diet as they currently are (for most people).

                                If this experience has told you that zero carb, or even low carb, isn't right for you, then that's absolutely fine. There are plenty of others who will agree with you. You've conducted some n=1 research and found what doesn't work for you. But again, that's not Marks fault, and it's not because of his statement.

                                I hope you find a way of eating soon that can lead you to the health outcomes you desire
                                If you're not the problem, there is no solution........
                                The life I have today is far better than I deserve.......

                                M, 58, 6'0
                                SW - 192
                                CW - 180
                                GW - 165-170

                                Current addiction: ice cream (and sugar in general).....doing battle with it!

                                Comment

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