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Marks position on Ketosis? Ketogenic vs Paleo.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by pcampo View Post
    ChocoTaco, Have you read "The Art and Science of Low Carb living"? Mostly what you have posted seems conjecture and anecdotes, so its hard for me to just take your word for it.
    So are you going to post the research in favor of your position or are you just going to say you don't believe him and nothing else?
    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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    • #32
      Well first Jakejoh, I have not stated my position. I was just merely showing a problem in Choco's comment "there is no low carb science worth reading" : who I am supposed to believe, Stephen Phinney (a physician-scientist who has spent 35 years studying diet, exercise, fatty acids, and inflammation,has held academic positions at the Universities of Vermont, Minnesota, and California at Davis, as well as leadership positions at Monsanto, Galileo Laboratories, and Efficas. Dr. Phinney has published over 70 papers and several patents. He received his MD from Stanford University, his PhD in Nutritional Biochemistry from MIT, and post-doctoral training at the University of Vermont and Harvard.) and Jeff Volek, a dietitian-scientist who has spent 15 years studying diet and exercise effects on health and performance. He has held an academic position at Ball State University and is currently an associate professor at the University of Connecticut. Dr. Volek has contributed to 3 books, 2 patents, and over 200 papers. He received his dietetic training at Michigan State University and Penrose St Francis Hospital and his PhD in Exercise Physiology from Penn State University), Or this guy Choco taco who I have no idea who he is basically telling me, "don't trust Jeff and Stephan, two people who have dedicated their adult life to this subject, but trust me Choce Taco.

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      • #33
        JakeJohn-"Are you just going to say you dont believe him and nothing else".......I have no reason to believe him over the professionals, is what im saying.

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        • #34
          These people aren't professionals, they're bloggers.
          Make America Great Again

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          • #35
            By professionals I was referring to the authors of "the art and science of Low carb......"

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
              These people aren't professionals, they're bloggers.
              Hey Derp, if credentials are what sway someone's opinion, shall we put forward some of our favorite scientists' credentials?
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              “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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              • #37
                Originally posted by pcampo View Post
                Well first Jakejoh, I have not stated my position.
                Well, you definitely implied your position, and I apologize if I'm mistaken.

                I was just merely showing a problem in Choco's comment "there is no low carb science worth reading" : who I am supposed to believe, Stephen Phinney (a physician-scientist who has spent 35 years studying diet, exercise, fatty acids, and inflammation,has held academic positions at the Universities of Vermont, Minnesota, and California at Davis, as well as leadership positions at Monsanto, Galileo Laboratories, and Efficas. Dr. Phinney has published over 70 papers and several patents. He received his MD from Stanford University, his PhD in Nutritional Biochemistry from MIT, and post-doctoral training at the University of Vermont and Harvard.) and Jeff Volek, a dietitian-scientist who has spent 15 years studying diet and exercise effects on health and performance. He has held an academic position at Ball State University and is currently an associate professor at the University of Connecticut. Dr. Volek has contributed to 3 books, 2 patents, and over 200 papers. He received his dietetic training at Michigan State University and Penrose St Francis Hospital and his PhD in Exercise Physiology from Penn State University), Or this guy Choco taco who I have no idea who he is basically telling me, "don't trust Jeff and Stephan, two people who have dedicated their adult life to this subject, but trust me Choce Taco.
                First of all, nice copy and paste job.

                You're not supposed to believe anyone. To be quite honest, I don't give a flying shit about someone's credentials. The facts are, you have to find what works for you and not go by blanket statements made by some of these low carb "experts". It has been shown over and over again in metabolic ward studies that there is no difference between fat loss when on a low carb diet vs a high carb diet when protein and calories are controlled.

                The problem I have with low carb pushers are that they make such blanket statements and they make it seem that low carb applies to everyone and can be beneficial for everyone, which we know is not true. Also, just as a side note, the more I read about Phinney's research in the areas of low-carb performance, the less I trust his opinions, as he puts low carb performance on a pedestal that it doesn't deserve to be on.

                Choco never said anyone should trust him. He's saying to get rid of the dogma.
                Last edited by jakejoh10; 07-08-2013, 07:02 PM.
                My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by j3nn View Post
                  Hey Derp, if credentials are what sway someone's opinion, shall we put forward some of our favorite scientists' credentials?
                  Indeed. It's just funny that people can't show the initiative to extensively research something as crucial as their own health, and will choose to believe someone else regardless of the fact they have clear agendas.

                  "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated failures. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent"
                  Make America Great Again

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                  • #39
                    They are "low carb researchers" employed by the Atkins foundation. They have their whole identity invested in making low carb look good. You tend to see the same traits in many of the studies. Atkins or meat industry funded Mostly weight loss studies, supplements to prevent constipation, use of obese subjects, comparisons to extremely poor low fat diets (some that even include less than 20g of fiber as well as refined fruit juices), mentioning of HDL and triglycerides but no mention of LDL. etc
                    Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 07-08-2013, 07:18 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Well Jake, Im sorry if I have offended you in any way. But what I asked were serious questions. Like I stated in the beginning, im new to this, so I think asking Choco if he can please give something else other than anecdote, is a legitimate question, or else I would believe anyone who comes in with a cool idea. By the way, since you mention "blanket statement", what Choco said was a "blanket statement", that low fat diet is better than high fat diet. Those two very opposing ideas, so who I am supposed to believe? That's all im saying here Jake. So if You can direct me towards a resource that states the opposite of the low carbers then do so, so that I can understand more about this topic.

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                      • #41
                        Also, of course I copied and pasted that. why would I waste energy writing all that in? I was making a point in putting all that in

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                        • #42
                          Some posters do make a habit of posting their opinion as matters of fact. Pointing that out doesn't necessarily mean that you agree, disagree, or have to provide relevant studies to oppose that persons view.

                          It's just that some things are accepted as known (physics and math and even that can be scrutinized if your in those upper echelons, which I am NOT), some things we think we know pretty well (biochemical pathways that have been mapped)......most things however are somewhere in the grey area between "very well supported by scientific experimentation" and "not supported by current scientific experimentation".

                          Thats actually the definition of why this stuff is even debatable.

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                          • #43
                            I agree wholeheartedly with choco's breakdown although he left out an important caveat....

                            Carbohydrates are almost always the macro a person is addicted to if they have a food addiction. A great amount of overweight westerners are anecdotally addicted to food. If you go on a diet without addressing a likely carb addiction it is extremely likely your addiction will sabotage your weight loss attempts. This is the reason mark suggests a low carb diet. A month or 2 into your diet after overcoming carb addiction, choco's advice stands uncontestable.


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                            Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Sweet Leilani View Post
                              I'm 362lb down from 410lb on ketosis. Easiest. Weightloss. Ever! ....for me anyways Have been keto since beginning of the year .


                              Congrats!!!!!!!! I feel the same way!!!

                              Ketosis is the best!!!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by pcampo View Post
                                Well Jake, Im sorry if I have offended you in any way.
                                Not sure where you got the impression that I'm offended. I'm just typing responses on an internet forum.

                                But what I asked were serious questions. Like I stated in the beginning, im new to this, so I think asking Choco if he can please give something else other than anecdote, is a legitimate question, or else I would believe anyone who comes in with a cool idea. By the way, since you mention "blanket statement", what Choco said was a "blanket statement", that low fat diet is better than high fat diet.
                                It's seems that you're attacking a strawman, as Choco never said that a low fat diet was better than a low carb diet. He was just addressing the issues with low carb diets that the "experts" seem to overlook in spouting their claims.
                                My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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