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Marks position on Ketosis? Ketogenic vs Paleo.

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  • #16
    And another! Ask The Low-Carb Experts (Episode 5): ‘Ketosis: Devil Or Angel?’ | Mark Sisson « Jimmy Moore's Livin' La Vida Low Carb Blog

    I think of the Caveman Doctor as being quite in favour of ketosis as something to dip into to promote autophagy, as well as being appropriate for several kinds of cancer patients.

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    • #17
      I find ketosis easy and effortless. 30-40 gm carbs and 60-70 gm protein for me.

      No epilepsy or cancer here. I find it a good way to avoid bloating from carbs and keep my blood sugar stable. Much more focus, too.

      Many of our Paleo ancestors were likely in ketosis a large part of the time. All the research I have read indicate that it is not stressful on the body if you eat plenty and balance your electrolytes. The Volek/Phinney book is a great resource!

      Tips & tricks for starting (or restarting) low-carb Pt I » The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.

      http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/s...ow-carb-pt-ii/
      Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
      Pregnancy Nutrition Coaching
      Primal Pregnancy Nutrition Article

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      • #18
        Originally posted by pcampo View Post
        ALSO, if Mark is stating to try and avoid ketosis, ARE MARK AND THE CAVEMAN DR CONFUSED BETWEEN KETOSIS AND KETOACIDOSIS? From my understanding Ketosis is not dangerous because it only means that your ketone levels are 3-5mM while ketoacidosis is a medical emergency, usually only occurs in diabetics when you can no longer produce insulin, and ketone levels are extremely high at above 15mM.
        No, both Mark Sisson and Caveman Dr know the difference between ketosis and ketoacidosis.

        Strangely it seems many doctors don't - maybe it's because the only time they hear "keto" is when it's a medical emergency for a diabetes patient - most are next to useless for any nutritional information which Nutritional Ketosis comes under.

        For cancer it seems ketosis may have benefits from what I hear and read - though visiting a cancer ward recently the suggested diet documentation there stated that there was no special diet to help cancer patients. The oncologist I spoke to said the exact same thing. The meals served in that ward seemed to be the same food served in the rest of the hospital - low quality in my opinion. So if you're in hospital, try have someone bring you proper food. Eating one good meal a day is probably better than the junk they serve in there - their stuff will make you sick IMO.

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        • #19
          I'm 362lb down from 410lb on ketosis. Easiest. Weightloss. Ever! ....for me anyways Have been keto since beginning of the year .
          I don't believe there is one correct way of eating for everybody, and I don't believe there is one correct way of eating for a person through every stage of their life

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Sweet Leilani View Post
            I'm 362lb down from 410lb on ketosis. Easiest. Weightloss. Ever! ....for me anyways Have been keto since beginning of the year .
            well done you, that's great. keto suits me too and the weight-loss can be phenomenal!
            When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
            27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
            new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

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            • #21
              Originally posted by pcampo View Post
              I am new to low carb eating ( I actually have not started yet, waiting on my high carb foods in my cupboard to finish) but I began reading "The Art and Science of Low Carb living", by Jeff Volek PhD and Stephen Phinney M.D., a thorough guide promoting low carb eating (ketogenic diet) and analyzes studies done on high carb diets and low carb/ high fat diets. I have been thoroughly convinced by this book to go on a low carb diet. However, after browsing through Marks website as well Cavemandoctor.com, I am a little confused on Marks position of ketosis.
              There is no low carb science worth reading. It's misinformation and propaganda. Carbohydrate is in no way, shape or form more fattening than fat. If anything, it is less fattening since carbohydrate must be indirectly converted into fat to be stored whereas dietary fat is stored directly without conversion. Carbohydrate takes some work (and therefore has a thermic effect) where fat largely does not. The only exception for fat are MCT's.

              Low carbohydrate lore is shrouded in confounding factors. Low carbohydrate diets in modern America tend to show initial weight loss for two main reasons:

              1.) Low fat culture has existed for about 40 years. Over this 40 year period, the food industry has created an absolutely massive market for low fat processed foods. The low carbohydrate culture has only developed over the past decade and the processed food market for low carbers is a tiny fraction of what low fatters have access to. Going on a low carbohydrate diet indirectly removes your ability to consume processed foods whereas a low fat diet tends to increase the availability of processed foods.

              2.) The preferred carbohydrate source for Americans is grain. Removing fats from your diet tends to greatly increase grain consumption following an SAD eating plan. Low carbohydrate diets automatically remove grains, beans and refined sugars from your diet. You will automatically increase your consumption of meats, eggs, cheese and vegetables. This means low carbohydrate American diets tend to be much more filling and nutritious than low fat diets. Of course, a diet of real food loaded with vitamins and minerals will yield a better body composition than a diet full of nutritionally bankrupt flours, sugars and thickeners.

              That is the only reason low carb "seems" to work. You automatically remove grains, legumes, refined sugars and almost all processed foods. In our culture with the food industry being what it is, low carb dieting tends to be mostly paleo by pure accident. In reality, if a low fat diet was done in the context of real food - lean meats, potatoes, fruit and lower fat dairy products (cottage cheese, 1-2% plain Greek yogurt, reduced fat cheeses without any additives), you'd likely see the same - if not increased - fat burning over a comparable low carbohydrate diet of equal calories. The reason why is prolonged low carbohydrate dieting tends to reduce the metabolic rate by slowing the thyroid and increasing cortisol since cortisol is the primary hormone used to break amino acids down into glucose via gluconeogenesis. Fundamentally, low carbohydrate dieting over prolonged periods of time promotes increased stress hormones and the "plateau effect" versus a moderate or higher carbohydrate approach. Personally, for ideal health, I prefer to drop fat intake for more carbohydrate from fruits, roots and tubers, and with the fat I do get, I prefer to skew it highly saturated and low polyunsaturated - mostly from red meats, coconut, eggs, dairy and my goto treat is chocolate. I avoid liquid oils, nuts and seeds and limit fatty fish.
              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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              • #22
                ^ I agree with pretty much everything you're saying here. It comes down to personal preference, that's all there is to it. There's no metabolic advantage between low carb vs. high carb when calories and protein are kept the same. If you want to lose fat, but you love to eat carbs, you can do both. I'm not sure where everyone got the idea that you have to cut carbs to lose fat. It's complete nonsense.

                I would say that those who are insulin resistant and overweight tend to do better with low carb because it helps keep their blood sugar stable, but this still comes down to what works best in the individual situation and personal preference.
                My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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                • #23
                  ChocoTaco369, that's such a wonderful post. I agree wholeheartedly and I don't think there's anything more to add.

                  Why it's almost impossible (for a healthy person with undamaged metabolism) to gain weight on a very high-carb, low-fat diet:
                  The Truth About When “Carbs Turn to Fat”

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                  • #24
                    Awesome post Choco

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by max219 View Post
                      Awesome post Choco
                      Nah. It makes too much sense.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by max219 View Post
                        Awesome post Choco
                        I agree!
                        | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                        “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Legbiter View Post
                          Here's an interview with Mark on this very topic.



                          The part from 6:20 is quite relevant.
                          Good post! I hadn't seen this before.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            Fundamentally, low carbohydrate dieting over prolonged periods of time promotes increased stress hormones and the "plateau effect" versus a moderate or higher carbohydrate approach.
                            Hmm... this seems a bit like Broscience. I think plateaus are a part of all weight loss regardless of diet being followed. No weight loss is a straight line

                            Of Whooshes and Squishy Fat | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
                            I don't believe there is one correct way of eating for everybody, and I don't believe there is one correct way of eating for a person through every stage of their life

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sweet Leilani View Post
                              Hmm... this seems a bit like Broscience. I think plateaus are a part of all weight loss regardless of diet being followed. No weight loss is a straight line

                              Of Whooshes and Squishy Fat | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
                              He might have been referring to the ability of dietary carbohydrates to regulate leptin levels, which will slow the "starvation response" effect that you get when on a calorie restricted diet.
                              My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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                              • #30
                                ChocoTaco, Have you read "The Art and Science of Low Carb living"? Mostly what you have posted seems conjecture and anecdotes, so its hard for me to just take your word for it.

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