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How bad is wheat, really?

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  • This is an excellent interview with Dr. William Davis author of Wheat Belly on the Challenges of eating wheat and grains...

    O World Project Interview - Dr. William Davis - author of 'Wheat Belly' - YouTube
    Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

    https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

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    • Below, in a discussion of wheat ("franken wheat") the story of the wheat variety used for breads in the US is well explained. I share with you my issues with wheat; I am not gluten intolerant, but have a significant biochemical reaction to wheat products from this country. When traveling Europe I can eat their breads (absolutely wonderful - especially Italy) and have absolutely no problem. We presently use King Arthur brand flour for baking, but I still avoid wheat in my diet- most of the time; also potatoes and rice due to their high glycemic index. White carbohydrate products are the key to obesity and diabetes in this country. I exercise and find myself full of energy and at a good weight at the age of 71. Europeans use white wheat, a variety available here as well but I don't know the specifics of American white wheat generation.

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      • Originally posted by paje View Post
        White carbohydrate products are the key to obesity and diabetes in this country.
        Gluttony and laziness are the root cause of obesity. Dr Davis is a whack job. Do you really believe our wheat turns us into drug addicts? That theory plays well in our victim-based society. We have become convinced that everything bad that happens to us is someone else's fault or because of some government conspiracy. The first thing we want to do is blame a scapegoat and then get a lawyer to bring a lawsuit. Re diabetes, what evidence can you cite that supports your contention?

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        • Originally posted by Artbuc View Post
          ...
          Hey! French guy speaking here. Wheat was my staple, I was gluttonous BECAUSE of wheat. I still eat starches every day, and I mean every single day but being gluttonous on potato and / or rice and / or butternut, pumpkin, green bananas, etc, is not possible, at least for me. But wheat ?? man, you have no clue ... baguettes, croissants, brioches, and all their variations ... so be cool about what others say about it.

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          • Originally posted by FrenchFry View Post
            Hey! French guy speaking here. Wheat was my staple, I was gluttonous BECAUSE of wheat. I still eat starches every day, and I mean every single day but being gluttonous on potato and / or rice and / or butternut, pumpkin, green bananas, etc, is not possible, at least for me. But wheat ?? man, you have no clue ... baguettes, croissants, brioches, and all their variations ... so be cool about what others say about it.
            You're using wheat as a scapegoat. Those foods you mentioned are generally high fat extremely palatable gourmet foods that can easily entice overeating. If you made those foods with tapioca, rice or even banana flour they would be just as easy to over consume.

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            • Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
              You're using wheat as a scapegoat. Those foods you mentioned are generally high fat extremely palatable gourmet foods that can easily entice overeating. If you made those foods with tapioca, rice or even banana flour they would be just as easy to over consume.
              mmm, my staple was bread (the croissants, brioche, etc, were too expensive to be eaten en masse). Bread has no added fat as far as I know. I could eat a loaf of it right from the bakery. No problem. I would be super hungry again just 1 hour later. Of course I would have bread again, but this time with other foods. Why would I be hungry again after a loaf of bread as is ? Let me know. If I ate some bread made of a gluten free mix, I don't think I would be that ravenous 1 hour later. So yes, I stay away from wheat because it really made me eat way more than I needed.

              And by the way, I don't care about what Davis has to say about it, or any other people for that matter. I experimented enough with myself to know that wheat eaten every day (because of course I had pasta very often, which I could eat without anything else as well) was not a good idea. But I don't see it as evil or use it as a scapegoat. Why would I ? I can certainly have a croissant once in a blue moon. But to make wheat as a staple is a bad idea in my book.
              Last edited by FrenchFry; 01-09-2014, 04:57 AM.

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              • Originally posted by FrenchFry View Post
                I could eat a loaf of it right from the bakery. No problem. I would be super hungry again just 1 hour later.

                And by the way, I don't care about what Davis has to say about it, or any other people for that matter. I experimented enough with myself to know that wheat eaten every day was not a good idea.
                Right on.

                You discovered what many people have noticed -- people can eat a ton of sugar and bread and still be hungry. It's probably because 1) these foods are addictive, 2) they turn off the feeling of fullness so you can eat nonstop.

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                • Personally, I know two things that modern wheat does to me:

                  1) The gluten upsets my digestion and causes a return of my IBS-D symptoms. It is a dose response for me, so trace amounts don't bother me - but if I ate the recommended serving of whole grains not only would I be overeating on calories everyday, I would also be sick in my gut every day.

                  2) Wheat causes an opiate-like response in my brain. As soon as I eat it I just want more. It feeds an addiction to food. (That's not just wheat's fault - it's also the childhood stress of growing up poor and with a mentally ill mother, having poor food choices available in childhood, a family pre-disposition to low dopamine levels and my own choices about what I ate in high school and college that only further cemented those patterns, instead of changing them for the better (though, to be fair, much of that was based on misinformation from the food pyramid, because I did TRY to make healthy food choices)).

                  Those two reasons are enough for me to avoid it . . . but when you add the fairly empty calorie source, GMOs, insulin response, phytates (that probably contribute to tooth decay and osteoporosis), etc. There are PLENTY of reasons to just not eat wheat, and largely to avoid grains in general.
                  Healthy Bucket List:
                  • Summit all of Colorado's 14-ers
                  • Hike the Appalachian Trail
                  • Do a real pull-up
                  • Run a 5k
                  • Be "Hot For Training Camp"



                  Check out my journey at Outdoor Amy's Blog.

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                  • I think wheat is worse than other starches. For example, it's more fattening for mice than rye:
                    Metabolic effects of whole grain wheat and whole g... [Nutrition. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI

                    And gluten seems to make rats fat:
                    Gluten-free diet reduces adiposity, inflammat... [J Nutr Biochem. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI

                    If gluttony and laziness are responsible for obesity, why were the wheat-fed rats more gluttonous and lazy than the rye-fed rats?
                    My opinions and some justification

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                    • Originally posted by Elliot View Post
                      I think wheat is worse than other starches.
                      Looks that way; there's also the Japanese study where children fed wheat instead of rice had IQs on avg points lower.

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                      • Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                        I totally agree that carbs should come from whole sources, especially fruits, veggies, and tubers. Some seem to say NO wheat at all, and that makes sense to gluten-intolerant people. I get that wheat can be inflammatory, but to be honest I'm not gluten-intolerant and I dont' feel any noticeable bad effects or lethargy whenever I eat something wheat-based. I also read Mark's article on how grains are actually seeds and have phytic acid etc so you should avoid them; by that logic, why are other seeds like pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds paleo-approved? I actually don;t like potatoes or rice, and that leaves me limited with other starchy carb options. In moderation, I would like to enjoy a nice artisan-baked sourdough loaf from the farmers market; can that be part of my 20%?

                        Please no rude responses; it's an honest question of how bad wheat really is.
                        Forgive the ramble that's coming:

                        Simply speaking, everyone has their own drug. For me a sugar-coated, WHEAT-based doughnut, is a drug. A "nice" loaf of sourdough bread, less so. What makes a drug? Something that makes you almost have an orgasm eating but which does little for your health.

                        If you snort cocaine, one snort a year might not do you lasting harm but if taken every couple of days, sooner or later you're in for a heap of trouble. Same for wheat-based "drugs". There is really not much nutrition packed into a donut or a loaf of bread aside from the macro-nutrient of carbs, which has limited and questionable value.

                        I am a 54 year old male who has had a life of moderate exercise, focused on "whole grains", had once a week or so salads but lots of cooked veggies in the form of peas, carrots and corn... enjoyed my apples and bananas and ate lots of quality peanut butter sandwiches (with said bananas)... I would squirt corn syrup on them often as well. I went through my phases of fast food. (always thinking I was picking the healthiest items off the list)... I would leave the skins on potatoes when I cooked 'em and eat them because I was told that the vitamin C was just under the skin... and I wanted the fibre. I grew up eating margarine and I loved putting cheeze-whiz on celery because, of course, that was healthy! The point being, nutritional quality was always in the BACK OF MY HEAD but never in the fore of my thinking.

                        NOW, I'm struggling with modest issues of auto-immune (fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue/lyme... who knows for sure... and bone spurs in my spine) I live with a modest amount of pain and fatigue and muscle wasting, despite thinking that I never really ate that poorly.

                        At what point does one say for sure that a certain percent... 5%... 10%... 20%... of wheat is the cause of the slow road of ill-health that I've traveled to get to this point of pain and fear for my life (my sister died of cancer and my brother is on his death bed with a brain tumor).

                        There are many people here experiencing many different levels and types of illness. Some have nothing to do with wheat (per se) and some have everything to do with it. But at some point they've come to the realization that SOMETHING has to change despite the discomfort of giving up certain foods and focusing on others.

                        So... although you may have little problem with the percentage of wheat that you eat presently, you MAY find that in 10 years "illness creep" will have moved the bar to the point where you'll have wished that you were more more diligent and disciplined about what you eat now.

                        "Illness Creep" is a serious issue for a lot of people... and they usually start out with the question... "how bad can it be?"

                        Cheers. ;-)

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                        • @Alfi56

                          Read this: Cooling Inflammation: Celiac, Gluten and Trypsin Inhibitor

                          If I have to eat a wheat-like substance, I make sure it is either spelt, einkorn or kamut. No such issues with those. But that's once in a blue moon.

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