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Messed up with long term VLCing = Hello Matt Stone!

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  • #76
    Originally posted by joaniel View Post
    hi, my name is xyz and i'm a male/female of 20-30 something years old. In 2012, i weight 7000 pounds. I decided to go vlc. I figured if 50 grams of carbs were good, then 0 grams would be better. I haven't had any food from the plant kingdom for over a year. I don't feel so good. I found a website that enlightened me to the fact that i need many many plant foods. So, for the last fifteen minutes, i have been eating copious amounts of fruit, candy, cakes, and my favorite - spoonsful of sugar. I feel awesome! The last time i felt this good, i was putting very good quality coke up my nose.

    You paleo and primal folks are assholes.
    lmfao

    Oh, come on.... thats funny right there..... Whats most funny about it is in context of this thread this is almost EXACTLY what the high carb guru's did! "If low carbs makes me feel this great then NO carb will make me immortal! There can be only one!!!! Bwaaaaa"........Then they crash, come back to earth and write a blog/book/whatever about the dangers of low carb and sell it to other NO carb refugees.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-01-2013, 01:29 PM.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by redcard View Post
      Thanks for the link. The paleo variant I'm following / intending to follow is almost exactly PHD
      Same.
      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

      Griff's cholesterol primer
      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
      bloodorchid is always right

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      • #78
        Hi Guys,

        thanks tonnes for the advice and links. Jake, thanks for the suggesting Lyle McDonald's flexible dieting book. I'm half way through reading it and finding it quite useful already in changing my tendency to take things to the extreme and inevitably fail.

        Here's what I've found:

        Long term VLC causes imbalance in thyroid hormones in some folks. This is a common problem among VLCers. For the first 6-8 months, they are on a high because of the increased production of stress hormones (Catecholamines) produced in response to caloric restriction. Eventually, their adrenal glands and thyroid tire out and deregulate. This causes symptoms like hair loss, cold extremities, depression etc. I'll list links that better explain this stuff at the end of this post.

        I'm lucky in that I only experienced the above mentioned symptoms for a few weeks before deciding to do something something about it. If I had let the situation escalate, it could have easily led me to direr circumstances.

        My metabolism was screwed from the long term caloric deficit. to recover, I ate whatever i felt like for two weeks, which included pizza, soda, ice cream, tacos etc etc etc (it helped that I was in Texas at the time )

        I now feel much better. My hair loss has retarded significantly, mood is stable and I'm less cold. My temperature still drops sometimes but a meal fixes it (carbs and sugar specially). I have put on 8 pounds in the last two weeks in fat and muscle. no biggie, i feel healthy.

        My plan from here on is to reduce junk food intake and substitute with whole food. I will still be eating a significant amount of carbs until I'm convinced that my metabolism has had the chance to recover.

        Once I feel recovered, I will get back to low carb (less than 150g) to lose the fat I've put on. This time, however, I will add weekly carb refeed days during which I will stuff my face with starchy but healthy carbs. I will also eat non paleo meals occasionally but intentionally, so that my body is used to eating junk, if i ever find the need or want to do so.


        Link section:


        VLC and hypothyroidism

        http://perfecthealthdiet.com/categor...ypothyroidism/

        http://180degreehealth.com/2010/06/t...mine-honeymoon


        Carb cycling/refeeding

        Matin Berkhan's LeanGains approach:

        http://doubleyourgains.com/musclebui...oach_Final.pdf

        Lyle McDonald's Flexible Dieting guide:

        http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/a-g...exible-dieting



        Recovery for those who are suffering from similar symptoms brought about by chronic malnutrition:


        Matt Stone's Diet Recovery

        http://www.amazon.com/Diet-Recovery-.../dp/B00BEJOSFY
        Last edited by pabs; 07-03-2013, 06:14 PM.
        Ones who try my curry are not ones to leave in a hurry

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        • #79
          Originally posted by pabs View Post
          Hi Guys,

          thanks tonnes for the advice and links. Jake, thanks for the suggesting Lyle McDonald's flexible dieting book. I'm half way through reading it and finding it quite useful already in changing my tendency to take things to the extreme and inevitably fail.

          Here's what I've found:

          Long term VLC causes imbalance in thyroid hormones in some folks. This is a common problem among VLCers. For the first 6-8 months, they are on a high because of the increased production of stress hormones (Catecholamines) produced in response to caloric restriction. Eventually, their adrenal glands and thyroid tire out and deregulate. This causes symptoms like hair loss, cold extremities, depression etc. I'll list links that better explain this stuff at the end of this post.

          I'm lucky in that I only experienced the above mentioned symptoms for a few weeksbefore deciding to do somethi
          Oh, what a load of horse shit.

          Fact:

          Somewhere between this load of dung you just dropped and the people that state ketosis is the one and only healthy way to live is the actual truth of the matter. I'm just not as persistent as some posters in regard to posting and re-posting the science that proves this..... go do more research is all I'm gonna say from now on.
          Last edited by Neckhammer; 07-03-2013, 05:51 PM.

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          • #80
            Oh, what a load of horse shit.
            Agreed.

            This is brilliant: The Scribble Pad: Low carb and thyroid: separating the truth from nonsense.
            Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
            Pregnancy Nutrition Coaching
            Primal Pregnancy Nutrition Article

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            • #81
              Originally posted by pabs View Post


              Long term VLC causes imbalance in thyroid hormones in some folks. This is a common problem among VLCers. For the first 6-8 months, they are on a high because of the increased production of stress hormones (Catecholamines) produced in response to caloric restriction. Eventually, their adrenal glands and thyroid tire out and deregulate. This causes symptoms like hair loss, cold extremities, depression etc. I'll list links that better explain this stuff at the end of this post.
              First, for some, VLC works perfectly fine. In fact very well. Every individual has individual needs.

              Second, VLC, for some people may inhibit conversion of T4 to T3. The majority of thyroid hormone conversion happens in the liver, not the thyroid. The thyroid does not tire out.

              With conversion issues TSH and T4 levels will, most likely, be normal. T3 will be low. Things that can help conversion include:
              1. Adequate selenium 200mcg/day
              2. Optimal vitamin D levels
              3. Optimal ferritin, iron levels
              4. Manage stress, even exercise related stress

              However, for some people, even optimizing the things listed isn't enough. I am one of those people. I have hypothyroidism. I have documented conversion issues. Going VLC complicates the conversion issue and I have a return of symptoms-- fatigue, pain, weight gain. When these symptoms arise and I have tests run, my FT3 is always low, my possible contributing factors are good.

              This has taught me-- I need carbs. Not a lot, maybe 100grams a day, I don't know because I don't track. This for me is confirmed through action:
              1. upping carbs
              2. resolution of symptoms
              3. blood tests indicating better conversion

              So my suggestion, and I've said it many times,if you are VLC and experiencing thyroid symptoms:
              1. do everything listed above to improve conversion
              2. up carb consumption
              3. reduce stress
              4. Seek medical attention re:
              thyroid-- TSH, FT4, FT3 antibodies
              vitamin D
              ferritin, iron

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              • #82
                Thanks for sharing your experience, Marcadav! and thanks to the rest of you as aswell. It's great to ahve a sounding board to run ideas and theories by, and subsequently get given direction.

                I've been reading up on hypothyroidism and I'm starting to think that I might have it because I display some of the symptoms ie. trouble losing weight, hair loss, dry skin/scalp. My dad has a thyroid disorder of sorts as well and has been taking medication for years. If my symptoms don't improve within the next few weeks, I will get myself tested.
                Last edited by pabs; 07-05-2013, 10:23 PM.
                Ones who try my curry are not ones to leave in a hurry

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                • #83
                  anyone watching this thread with similar symptoms might find this post interesting:

                  Low-Carb Diets and T3: A False Alarm | A Worldly Monk

                  Thinking back, however, my hair loss and some other symptoms presented themselves way before I got on PB and were simply exacerbated by VLC.

                  THERE IS HOPE!
                  Ones who try my curry are not ones to leave in a hurry

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