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Messed up with long term VLCing = Hello Matt Stone!

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  • #46
    Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    This is the Internet man, every one is just pushing their opinion (you even said so in another thread), hell even a published book is just an opinion (eg TPB). If one becomes obsessed with an aspect of their lives because they read or believed another's opinion it is entirely their own fault.
    However If they where damaged because they followed a government sanctioned food pyramid then that's another story.


    Sent from my iPhone
    It's no different. Government or internet guru, any kind of perceived authority on a subject has the same potential benefits or consequences if you do not remain objective. The same people who work in government offices are the same ones who come home and post opinions on Internet forums. It is not anymore risky to take dietary advice from an Internet blogger than it is from government guidelines.
    | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

    “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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    • #47
      "Are you proposing nobody ever test out to see if something works for them?"

      funny. I would have used the exact same phrase to describe the OP and his/her story. I don't think they went more than 7 months on their initial try. And here they are saying it didn't work for them and they're bouncing around trying to find the balance.

      So PABS -- I would suggest you not rely solely or regularly on pizza or chili for your carbs but learn to love more of other carbs in the healthy versions, i.e. those mentioned in Primal Blueprint or other books mentioned here. You may find that with a 2nd, 3rd reading of the text, new details will stand out for you that didn't make an impression on the first read.

      When you first hit the ground running, it takes a bit to fully comprehend beyond "hey, I get to eat more fats in this group and check out the health of the meats I'm eating and enjoy this variety of veggies but avoid these sugary ones". Now you have the opportunity to fine-tune. I suspect you'll learn to incorporate a "rolling" or occasional VLC further down the line, when it feels healthy or right for you.

      “you aren't what you eat - you are what you don't poop.” Wavy Gravy

      Today I am Fillyjonk. Tommorow I will be Snufkin.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
        But nor are they the answer to all problems in life, as those carb proponents who claim to be persecuted for their beliefs want us to think. Hardly anybody does well on a very low fat diet. But I have been told to do a very low fat diet repeatedly by carb proponents.
        I agree. There are certainly problems on both ends of the spectrum, I never said anything that denies this.

        Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
        Because it works for some people all of the time and some people some of the time. Because some people like to try out the n=1. Are you proposing nobody ever test out to see if something works for them?
        You're always trying to put words in my mouth. The last sentence is nonsense, I never said anything that resembles it. I just cannot see how anyone would get benefits from a low protein, low carb diet.
        My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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        • #49
          Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
          I'm really struggling to understand why people think this is beneficial on any level.
          Read Peter Attia's blog for some excellent reasons.

          Again, vlc/ketosis is definitely not for everyone, but for some of us (including me) ketosis rocks!
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          • #50
            Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
            Read Peter Attia's blog for some excellent reasons.

            Again, vlc/ketosis is definitely not for everyone, but for some of us (including me) ketosis rocks!
            I'm looking more so at the low protein, not so much low carb.
            My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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            • #51
              Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
              I'm looking more so at the low protein, not so much low carb.
              I get that. Read his blog posts on ketosis for a clear scientific explanation.
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              • #52
                how about everyone visit this thread help the person out

                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread89359.html
                Last edited by spk; 06-30-2013, 12:00 PM.

                “you aren't what you eat - you are what you don't poop.” Wavy Gravy

                Today I am Fillyjonk. Tommorow I will be Snufkin.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by pabs View Post
                  Hi,
                  so I began to progressively reduce my carb intake and incorporated IF. Often I would just go without eating much for couple of days because I couldn't find anything paleo around me or was just plain lazy.
                  I don't quite understand why anyone would do this and expect to feel good.
                  I'm quite happy with my 30-80 carbs. I have about 30lbs left to lose and haven't decided yet how I'll be increasing my intake when I want to stop utilising my own fat but its not going to be in junk
                  When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
                  27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
                  new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
                    I get that. Read his blog posts on ketosis for a clear scientific explanation.
                    It's important to define "low protein". I looked through some of his posts explaining what he eats, and he says around 120 grams of protein. Now, I wouldn't consider this low, it's probably closer to moderate.

                    I still don't understand how a low protein diet would be desirable or beneficial.
                    My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                      You carefully selected your reading sources based on your diet obsession. You could have selected others. You did not.

                      I remember those threads you started. You had an eating disorder, a diet obsession. And it seems you have not been able to normalize your relationship with food. You still think of food and diet in terms of good and evil.

                      In fact, even though it's not true that no book has been written suggesting more than 150g of carbs a day, you are leaving out some important facts. The fact is that you chose to eat essentially a zero carb diet. You were obsessed with not eating carbs even though you were seriously underweight. You did not eat anywhere near those 150g of carbs a day.

                      And while I say you shouldn't blame people recommending 150g of carbs a day for the fact you broke your metabolism by continuing to eat VLC long after it was clear it wasn't working, the idea that everybody should be eating 300-600g of carbs a day is utter hogwash. People who tell me what I should change my diet to without knowing what I eat and whether it is working for me deserve not respect, but to be ignored.

                      The idea that eating disorders based on body dysmorphia is a minor problem for a few women is untrue. There's a thread over there where pre-teen girls are being blamed for not standing up to the media and taking control of their lives.

                      You can take responsibility for your life. Or you can decide to learn nothing and blame others for your own mistakes.
                      Sure because "Paleo books and websites" = MDA and a Primal blueprint. Googling Acne + Paleo bring up a ton of sources. Googling Paleo + dark circles brings up a ton os sources. Googling Paleo + cold feet brings up a ton of sources. I don't just read MDA, part of my obsession was to read EVERYTHING.Yes I was obsessed, I'm not ashamed to admit that. It's silly of you to tell me what I read, when you have no idea where I was getting my information. (and not all of it is even published since I spoke personally to holistic health guidance)

                      Are you kidding? I still think of food as good and evil? Read the context. I said AMERICA is about eating junk food when one looks are the general health status of that country. You said it yourself, going from a unhealthy, dumb zero carb to 600 GRAMS of carbs a day is a complete 180 on what I consider "relationship". Trying to shrink me with my psychology and relationships with food won't work when you have no idea what I eat these days.

                      I'm not telling you what to EAT. Oh yes, EAT. You told me in my very first post about Paleo failings that I should go on a 24 hours WATER FAST! You've said it a few times I was underweight not eating carbs and to then go on and say I should completely cut out all food for 24 hours is crazy. (I know this because I've realised there's more to health than Paleo solutions, they don't work)

                      I'd barley say that a 19 year old (at the time) trying to get healthy isn't taking care/responsibility of their own life. How many 19 year old give a damn about their health? Believe me, I'm learning more and more everyday from people who have an open mind and aren't trapped in the dogma of everyday health, reverting to fasts and tiny movement in food choices or even macronutrients. And those whom I apparently "blame" are the ones I've received direct emails from, the famous authors, by the way. Whats' a young man to do, when all his peers and elders put the Paleo up on a pedestal as GOD? There are very few open minded people on here, even you know that Katherine.

                      You should (or not, I don't care), shift your overall perspective of life. There are no "mistakes". NOBODY has a clue what true health is and to tell a 22 year old that in his own journey to "health" all his choices are wrong is just sad. And you wonder why I kept low carb with all of this contradictory information?
                      Last edited by Nstocks; 06-30-2013, 12:26 PM.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
                        It's important to define "low protein". I looked through some of his posts explaining what he eats, and he says around 120 grams of protein. Now, I wouldn't consider this low, it's probably closer to moderate.

                        I still don't understand how a low protein diet would be desirable or beneficial.
                        So, lowish protein with regard to ketosis is simply a means keeping your protein low enough to avoid raising insulin and kicking yourself out of ketosis. This is what Richard was referring to in his thread title.

                        The suggested protein range is .8 to 1.0 gm of protein per kilogram of body weight for sedentary to moderately active people who have trouble staying in ketosis with higher protein.

                        Muscle retention is enhanced in ketosis, so you do not need as much dietary protein as in a low carb diet.

                        For Peter Attia, up to 120 gm of protein works--possibly because he is highly active and has a great deal of muscle mass to maintain. Other, smaller people (like Amber @ Ketotic blog) can eat much more protein than the suggested range and still stay in ketosis. It's very individual.
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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
                          Muscle retention is enhanced in ketosis, so you do not need as much dietary protein as in a low carb diet.
                          This is true after you've become "fat-adapted", which I believe is somewhere around 10-14 days (don't quote me on this, correct me if I'm wrong). In the meantime, it's crucial to get a good amount of dietary protein so that your body doesn't try to derive it's glucose needs from muscle tissue via gluconeogenesis.

                          Like anything, some people thrive on ketogenic diets and some do horribly. It's definitely an individual thing.
                          My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
                            This is true after you've become "fat-adapted", which I believe is somewhere around 10-14 days (don't quote me on this, correct me if I'm wrong). In the meantime, it's crucial to get a good amount of dietary protein so that your body doesn't try to derive it's glucose needs from muscle tissue via gluconeogenesis.

                            Like anything, some people thrive on ketogenic diets and some do horribly. It's definitely an individual thing.
                            First of all, "fat-adapted" and "keto-adapted" are two different things. Most folk take ~6 weeks to become keto-adapted, some need as much as 6 months.

                            Second, muscle retention is more a matter of "use it or lose it" than high dietary intake. There is certainly a minimum protein intake to avoid muscle catabolization, but it is much lower than most people believe. For average folk, .8-1.0 g per kilogram range is sufficient--others will need a bit more.

                            Do take the time to read Peters blog thoroughly. He really explains the science/physiology in depth.
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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
                              The fact that there are some who push the idea that carbs are the root of all evil often drives the obsessive restriction. The fact that people are misinformed is no just the person's fault, but the people who spread the BS are at fault as well. The blame should be distributed both ways.
                              Indeed. I've never blamed anyone my health but it's a fact that whenever you look at Paleo, it's going to based around low carb, high fat. The thing is, one blogger is seen as GOD and the information they share is filtered to all of the children whom believe totally that this is the only answer.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
                                You're always trying to put words in my mouth.
                                It's what she does. She's a habitual instigator and straw man argument maker.
                                | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                                “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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