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4 mnths of Primal. down 20lbs, but confused with blood results

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  • 4 mnths of Primal. down 20lbs, but confused with blood results

    First post!

    I figured this was the best place to post this. I just got my lipid profile done after 4 months of Primal and I honestly don't know what to think. Everything is high.

    I am wondering if it's because I am still losing weight? I was fasted for around 11hrs, so food shouldn't have affected it, correct?

    Here's the blood test result: Lipid Profile - Imgur


    Thanks

  • #2
    Losing weight releases fat from your fat cells into your bloodstream. Being fasted could theoretically have made it worse, if the effect was immediate.

    If you are still losing weight, that's why. Try again a couple of months after your weight has stabilized.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
      Losing weight releases fat from your fat cells into your bloodstream. Being fasted could theoretically have made it worse, if the effect was immediate.

      If you are still losing weight, that's why. Try again a couple of months after your weight has stabilized.
      Thank you. I am set to get another in 1-2 months.

      I thought about the fasting aspect as well...wouldn't my body be in fat torching mode at that point, thus fat cells flowing like crazy? Maybe more so since I've been doing intermittent fasting for awhile?

      When I get my tests done again in 1-2 months should I go fasted again?


      Thanks

      Comment


      • #4
        I really don't know. I have read that cholesterol is highly variable based on time of day, recent meals, etc. I have also read that you wait until after your weight have stabilized to judge improvement.
        Last edited by eKatherine; 06-27-2013, 06:48 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
          I really don't know. I have read that cholesterol is highly variable based on time of day, recent meals, etc. I have also read that you wait until after your weight have stabilized to judge improvement.
          Mark did write about how if you are still losing weight it can definitely affect the numbers.

          It's just weird, I mean if I never got bloodwork done I'd not have the slightest concern. I am getting leaner and stronger, but then I get these results.

          BTW, here are my only other results prior to yesterdays: imgur: the simple image sharer This was last year and I was just eating whatever and 15lbs heavier.

          Comment


          • #6
            Does anyone else monitor their bloodwork while on Primal?

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            • #7
              I don't, but I do know that actively losing weight messes with the markers.

              Comment


              • #8
                I posted this another thread earlier today:

                I have been Primal for 13 months. Here is the lipid panel I had a couple weeks ago, compared to the one from Nov 2009:

                Cholesterol Nov 2009 249 June 2013 221 (-28)
                HDL Nov 2009 62 June 2013 85 (+23)
                Triglycerides Nov 2009 118 June 2013 48 (-70)
                LDL Nov 2009 163 June 2013 129 (-34)


                I was surprised that the improvements were as good as they were. I take Synthroid for hypothyroidism, which tends to cause higher cholesterol. My cholesterol had been in the 240 range for ten years or so. Doc has been suggesting statins for years but I have resisted. I have gone from 192 to about 170 pounds since going primal, mostly by walking/hiking, but with Mark's essential movements added in. I don't eat dairy except for heavy whipping cream. I have an unfounded suspicion that eliminating the dairy is largely responsible for the improvements in my numbers.


                I remember Dr. Atkins saying that cholesterol increased for his dieters in the early months. That is one reason why I waited a year to get tested. If my lipid panel had gotten worse instead of better, I still wouldn't stop what I'm doing with PB. There have been too many improvements in areas I can actually see and feel.
                As God is my witness, I'll never be hungry again.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am a doctor, and what jumps off the page to me in your blood work was the INCREASE in triglycerides. Most of those other values are not worrisome to me, especially with how strong your LDL/HDL ratio is.

                  Jennifla has a much more common pattern of change when primal is undertaken. In many cases, BOTH LDL and HDL go up, but the ratio improves, and triglycerides go down. That is the common denominator to most positive changes in diet. Triglycerides are usually considered to coincide directly with carbohydrate consumption. A lot of emerging research has implicated that reading more so than the traditional total cholesterol number.

                  How strict are you on primal? Do you drink alcohol? (This is notorious for sending tri through the roof). I have yet to see a primal-diet patient with tris in that range....
                  "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
                    I am a doctor, and what jumps off the page to me in your blood work was the INCREASE in triglycerides. Most of those other values are not worrisome to me, especially with how strong your LDL/HDL ratio is.

                    Jennifla has a much more common pattern of change when primal is undertaken. In many cases, BOTH LDL and HDL go up, but the ratio improves, and triglycerides go down. That is the common denominator to most positive changes in diet. Triglycerides are usually considered to coincide directly with carbohydrate consumption. A lot of emerging research has implicated that reading more so than the traditional total cholesterol number.

                    How strict are you on primal? Do you drink alcohol? (This is notorious for sending tri through the roof). I have yet to see a primal-diet patient with tris in that range....
                    Thank you for this reply. From my brief research, it was my Tri number that seemed alarming. I thought maybe, since Mark wrote about it, that it's because I am burning a lot of fat and was tested in a fasted state.

                    I like to think that I stick to primal 90/10 --- I think I am very strict BUT when it comes to alcohol, I have either red wine, tequila or hard cider and to be honest...a lot of hard ciders throughout the week --- could this be the culprit? I avoid grain based alcohol.

                    EDIT: What do you consider a good LDL/HDL ratio?

                    EDIT 2: Just to elaborate a bit more on diet. I eat organic chicken, wild caught fish, and grass fed beef as well as organic fruits and veggies when possible. I never have grains or legumes. Other than cream in coffe I sometimes have gouda...which I actually had the night before my blood test. This is why I was so confused and I don't think my current doctor is going to help diagnose as he quote "would like me to get another blood test in 1 - 2 months when I am done with this diet because my cholesterol went way up". He believes my paleolithic style eating is just a diet/fad and made no mention of my Tri number.

                    EDIT 3: Just adding also that my Dr is assuming this is from eating meat although my meat consumption isn't that different from when I wasn't doing Primal. If anything I am eating healthier grass fed meat. The biggest difference is the removal of grains and I guess the switch from regular beer to cider.

                    Thanks again
                    Last edited by lybertrian; 06-27-2013, 12:43 PM.

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                    • #11
                      I could be "dumbing this down a bit", but if Triglycerides can be described as "Excess calories, alcohol or sugar in the body turn into triglycerides and are stored in fat cells throughout the body." then I am thinking I will:

                      1. Cut back on alcohol in general
                      2. Stop with hard ciders
                      3. Have red wine or nice tequila if I am going to have a drink

                      I just didn't think it was a big deal because I had been losing weight fast during this time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        NERD-ALERT: WHAT FOLLOWS IS BIOCHEM TO EXPLAIN FAT BURNING IN RELATION TO INSULIN AND BLOOD WORK. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED

                        -- Your triglyceride number is NOT indicative of fat burning. It is an indicator of fat storage....my body fat sitting on me right now is in the trigly form. What this means is that there are 3 fatty acid chains attached by a glycerol, hence the name. When your body stores fat, it must convert it to this form first. In order to burn it, it must BREAK the glycerol chain, turning it into 3 free fatty acids. Fatty acids are used as energy by beta-oxidation.....in short: Fatty acids = energy, Trigly = spare tire

                        Now, WHY is it considered a marker of carb/sugar consumption and why does alcohol count?
                        -- So, let's say I have body fat sitting on my stomach that I am about to burn. It is about to go bye-bye, a good thing How does it do that? It is sitting there in it's 3-chain form, and in order for me to burn it on one of my "hike after fasting" trips it must become broken up into its 3 components. Then it will be sent to my muscles (or others cells needing energy) to be burned via beta-oxidation....Now, here is the important part. What conditions are necessary to make this happen?

                        *** Insulin must be low.....the primary method of BREAKING up my trigly into usable fatty acids to help me go up my mountain as energy is by using an enzyme that cleaves the glycerol bond. The enzyme that does this is called "Hormone-sensitive lipase". Lipase being "fat cutter", and guess what hormone its "sensitive" to? Insulin....Simply put, you cannot fat burn if you are NOT in a low insulin state. If sugar (glucose) is available in the blood, your cells will use it instead because it is toxic.

                        This is the common denominator of ALL effective diets....they must create a low-insulin state to stimulate hormone-sensitive lipase. If it don't do that, it don't do crap You can pick your way of doing that, but that is the singular goal. Your hormones don't care what diet book you just read.

                        Alcohol is a sugar, chemically, and is treated as such by the liver. Like sucrose (AKA: The devil), it cannot be used by the muscles at all. ALL of it must be processed by the liver first. That is why it is not an overstatement to say that technically, sugar and alcohol are toxins. This is what poisons do. They all need 100% liver clearance, only they kill immediately. What I am saying is that biochemically, a glass of sugar water and a beer end up as the same thing....insulin is REQUIRED to process them into the cells. So long as there is a need for insulin, there is no fat burning.

                        In other words, it's like this on a paper napkin:
                        INSTRUCTIONS TO GAIN FAT:
                        Carbs/sugar/alcohol => insulin to store => Hormone-sens lipase off => fat storage => Packaging into its storage form, triglyceride......
                        INSTRUCTIONS TO LOSE FAT:
                        Fasting/primal/ketogenic diet => low insulin as nothing there to store => Hormone-sens lipase turns on => Trigly broken into fatty acids for energy => "fat burning" => awesome sauce

                        Sorry for the biochem lesson, but it's all pointless and confusing if you don't understand the mechanics. I would shoot for a ratio like you have 5/1, but trigly of 100 or less....I have a paleo patient that had one of 34 a few weeks ago, 6/1 ratio, 6% bodyfat. It's all related boss.

                        Hope this helps.
                        Last edited by TheyCallMeLazarus; 06-27-2013, 08:18 PM.
                        "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Amazing response. Quite the lesson. Thank you.

                          I guess I'm just a bit perplexed that its indicator of fat storage as I am prob 10-12% range and have way less fat than 4 months ago as well as intermittent fast.

                          Not sure if it matters but my glucose was 83mg/dL. Either way, my biggest change other than dropping grains and legumes is my increase of hard cider, so I shall drop that.


                          Thanks so much.

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                          • #14
                            I would also recommend getting more than one, and to go to a doctor that understands what you are doing diet-wise. A lot of the research the medical community thought we knew about cholesterol is increasingly getting disproven, and triglys are getting more implicated....that doesn't mean that it is enough on its own to mean poor health, esp with your other panel numbers.

                            The fasting should def be helping those numbers. One test is never a storyteller. I'd keep it up, for back at your follow-up, and likely your numbers will have changed. Your doc knows that single tests are not enough to treat from. If you are 10%BF, feeling good, doing what you're supposed to do, the panels will take care of themselves.
                            "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Ya, I think I'd be a lot more comfortable with a doctor who gets what I'm doing.

                              You in the boston area? Haha



                              Thanks

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