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  • Rice and.......Depression?

    Yesterday I cooked some white Jasmine rice (white jasmine rice, ghee, water, salt, pepper) as a side to grilled fish and vegetables. I ate approximately a cup - cooked.
    Unlike potatoes and bananas, rice is not really a regular for me.

    I was feeling fine yesterday, but today all is wrong with the world all of a sudden. I woke up after almost 9 hours of restful sleep feeling tired and cranky. My workout routine sucked. Now every little mundane task feels too overwhelming. I'm not feeling like my regular self at all. I'm depressed and feel like crying for no reason.

    I think it's noteworthy to add that I felt exactly the same way the day after I had a beer about a month ago.
    I know it's not the carb load per se, because I'm not that low-carb anymore and I do fine with bunch of carbs - at once or spread throughout the day from other foods.

    WTH is up with that? Has anyone else experienced something similar?
    Last edited by Graycat; 06-24-2013, 12:08 PM.

  • #2
    Suspicion:

    Encephalonic glucose intolerance


    WTF:::


    this is my made up term for those people who get drunk on sugar in the myriad of ways it can happen. the worst case is Schizophrenia and Alzheimer.

    if you care to know your threshold, go ketogenic for 3 days ( to totally deplete your glucose levels) then add back specific increments of glucose until you feel like shit.

    note the level and never exceed it
    Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

    Predator not Prey
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    CW 315 | SW 506
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    Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

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    • #3
      I get similar results form Beer and other grain stuff. Also get similar from refined sugar and milk. Not sure about rice as I haven't eaten it in huge quantity since I went paleo.
      Healthy is the new wealthy.

      http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

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      • #4
        Everything that quelsen says is awesome.

        But in addition, I suspect that a big part of how we feel is how our gut bacteria feel. Maybe the bacteria that currently populate your gut don't like rice? If that's the case, the you have two options: Feed your gut what it likes; or feed it different foods, which will change the bacteria in your gut.

        I think that one of the big changes primal people experience is a mass die-off of the bacteria that lived on all of the bread products in our gut.
        Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

        Griff's cholesterol primer
        5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
        Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
        TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
        bloodorchid is always right

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        • #5
          I have started eating raw rice and feel compelled to do so started this 4-5 months ago I know it's a form of a pica but I get such strong craving of it I can't help myself what should I do ? I hate the habit but love the taste of raw rice anyone has a similar issue ?

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          • #6
            I don't get the same issues when eating bananas, which are relatively high in carbs/sugars. I can eat a lot of ripe bananas in one day without any changes to my mood, I remain completely stable.
            Healthy is the new wealthy.

            http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

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            • #7
              I have noticed if I have anything with wheat in it or sugar I get a horrible hangover the next morning. I don't feel good, headache and just in a blah mood for most of the day.

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              • #8
                That's really interesting: when I was really depressed last winter, all I wanted to eat was rice. Now I'm coming to the conclusion that, unless it's in sushi, I don't do so well on it physically (bloating etc).

                Don't know if it affected my mood adversely in the winter, but I do know it didn't make me feel better...
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by quelsen View Post
                  Suspicion:

                  Encephalonic glucose intolerance


                  WTF:::


                  this is my made up term for those people who get drunk on sugar in the myriad of ways it can happen. the worst case is Schizophrenia and Alzheimer.

                  if you care to know your threshold, go ketogenic for 3 days ( to totally deplete your glucose levels) then add back specific increments of glucose until you feel like shit.

                  note the level and never exceed it
                  I have done the VLC long term and eventually started gradually introducing different foods. I still do think VLC is a good diet starting point for most people. For me it has been an interesting experience. That's one way to put it, anyway.

                  Originally posted by Owen View Post
                  I get similar results form Beer and other grain stuff. Also get similar from refined sugar and milk. Not sure about rice as I haven't eaten it in huge quantity since I went paleo.
                  I don't drink milk, but I do fine with both refined sugar and sugary fruit. I eat good quality ice cream though which techicaly has milk in it, and do fine with that too.
                  Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                  Everything that quelsen says is awesome.

                  But in addition, I suspect that a big part of how we feel is how our gut bacteria feel. Maybe the bacteria that currently populate your gut don't like rice? If that's the case, the you have two options: Feed your gut what it likes; or feed it different foods, which will change the bacteria in your gut.

                  I think that one of the big changes primal people experience is a mass die-off of the bacteria that lived on all of the bread products in our gut.
                  Thanks. The most plausible explanation to me.

                  Originally posted by CiKi90
                  I seemingly get depressed after consuming wheat products, but lately I've been suspecting that it's not just the wheat that's to blame, but other factors that are in my life as well. I'm still figuring this one out, because its a very complex issue to figure out.

                  Do you track your carbs at all? Maybe you can correlate a certain number of grams to causing depression, for you. Maybe it's something or other found in the rice, and it could also possibly be the type of rice you had. Maybe experiment with different kinds -- basmati, jasmine, brown, arborio, sushi, etc. over a period of time to see if it's all the same? I dunno!


                  If all else fails, just start making cauliflower rice! Love that stuff.
                  CiKi, I've been reading your journal sometimes. Hugs. I love cauliflower too. The problem is that it doesn't keep me satiated the way starches do. This is the main reason I eat them, not because they taste so great. I still track my macros and calories as I have almost everyday for over two years. I usually end up somewhere between 120 and 150g. of carbs.

                  Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                  That's really interesting: when I was really depressed last winter, all I wanted to eat was rice. Now I'm coming to the conclusion that, unless it's in sushi, I don't do so well on it physically (bloating etc).

                  Don't know if it affected my mood adversely in the winter, but I do know it didn't make me feel better...
                  Interesting indeed. Perhaps this further reinforces magicmerl theory about the gut micro-flora?

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                  • #10
                    Hey, I know this is an old post, but I feel I could help you with your question. (not sure if anyone else has replied with the same thing) I get the same thing. For me it's an igG allergy (or intolerance) and very high on the reaction scale. I feel sleepy, can't be bothered doing anything, cranky and just crap.. my brain goes all foggy, and if I eat enough of it I just want to pass out.

                    Not sure if you've had an igG allergy test already, but I had mine done in Australia, in Sydney. They test 210 foods and the lab is called Australian biologics.

                    When I started dating my current bf, I noticed mood and energy changes after he'd eaten certain foods.. I noticed a pattern with eggs and dairy in particular. Sure enough, he came up with a very high rating with those foods.

                    He is also intolerant to brewer's yeast they test that too!

                    I'd say it's worth doing if it ruins your moods.. there's probably others that you react to without realising what it was.

                    I'd also recommend getting tested for fructose malabsorption. I came up positive for that too.. and now I'm candida free (TMI I know, but for any other readers out there that it might help) I'd get thrush every month.. but it was just excess sugar.. which I don't have a problem with now that I know which fruits to avoid.

                    Hope I helped

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FreeFree View Post
                      Hey, I know this is an old post, but I feel I could help you with your question. (not sure if anyone else has replied with the same thing) I get the same thing. For me it's an igG allergy (or intolerance) and very high on the reaction scale. I feel sleepy, can't be bothered doing anything, cranky and just crap.. my brain goes all foggy, and if I eat enough of it I just want to pass out.

                      Not sure if you've had an igG allergy test already, but I had mine done in Australia, in Sydney. They test 210 foods and the lab is called Australian biologics.

                      When I started dating my current bf, I noticed mood and energy changes after he'd eaten certain foods.. I noticed a pattern with eggs and dairy in particular. Sure enough, he came up with a very high rating with those foods.

                      He is also intolerant to brewer's yeast they test that too!

                      I'd say it's worth doing if it ruins your moods.. there's probably others that you react to without realising what it was.
                      Chris Kresser says food allergy tests are EXTREMELY inaccurate in this podcast:

                      Food Allergy Testing, Tricks for Flu Season and Exclusive Book Bonuses

                      Originally posted by Chris Kresser
                      Thatís a great question, and Iím continuously reevaluating that question because there are all these new tests becoming available and new options for clinicians, but each time I look at the research Iím continually disappointed by the lack of evidence supporting any of the food allergy testing. I think Cyrex Labs probably has the best available food allergy testing thatís out there, but theyíre only really looking at cross-reactive proteins that are related to gluten intolerance, and even then, Iím still not 100% sold that itís accurate. I think food allergy testing, though, can be used as a springboard or as a basis for experimentation, a jumping-off point, if you will. What that means is you do a food allergy test, you get it back, and it says youíre allergic to strawberries, celery, and egg whites. Rather than just take that at face value and completely eliminate those foods from your diet forever, you could try a period of a couple weeks or three weeks where you donít eat that those foods at all and then add them back in and see if they are a problem for you. If you look at the research, the elimination/provocation protocol, which I just mentioned Ė you know, taking foods out of your diet and adding them back in Ė is still the gold standard for food allergy testing. And if you go to a top-flight food allergist, thatís what theyíll do. They may use some of the testing in the way that I described as a way of figuring out how to structure the elimination diet, but really I think you still have to do that kind of testing and thereís no reason to avoid a healthy food like celery or strawberries just on the basis of these test results without doing your own personal testing.
                      Also: Testing for SIBO, Graves Disease, and all about Anemia

                      Originally posted by Chris Kresser
                      And then there are also tests for food intolerance and tests for leaky gut, though I think those are less useful... As far as food intolerance testing goes, weíve either talked about it on the show or Iíve written about it or both, but I donít consider food intolerance testing to be very useful for a couple different reasons. Number one, and Iím pretty sure Iíve mentioned this on the show, there have been some kind of blinded trials done anecdotally by clinicians, where theyíve drawn their own blood and put it two vials, you know, on the same day, same blood draw, and labeled the two vials with different names and sent them into the same lab and come back with completely different results for the two different vials of blood that came from the same person on the same day. So thatís a little suspect. And then number two, even if the test was completely reliable, the question is still whatís causing those food intolerances? I mean, food intolerance is a symptom; itís not a disease. Thereís an underlying disease or pathology thatís causing those food intolerances, and that would usually be SIBO or intestinal permeability or a parasite or a fungal infection or some other gut problem, maybe a gut-brain axis issue or maybe gluten exposure, undiagnosed gluten intolerance. Those are mechanisms. Those are problems that lead to symptoms. So if you just remove the foods that the food intolerance testing shows that youíre sensitive to, certainly that will help with the symptoms, and thereís nothing wrong with that, but assuming you want to be able to eat some of those foods again, addressing the underlying problem is a much better approach. So I donít put a lot of stock into food intolerance testing for those reasons.
                      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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                      • #12
                        This thread has me nervous to eat the potato soup I just made :P
                        Music of the day/week/month/whatever:

                        K.A.A.N. - L.T.N. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWocmse1Ef4

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nellodee View Post
                          This thread has me nervous to eat the potato soup I just made :P
                          Only way to know if you'll react poorly is to eat it and see!
                          "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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                          • #14
                            Funny, too much rice will either give me racing heart / anxiety or carb coma.
                            From too much sushi I usually go into carb coma, just rice either, not sure how this works.
                            Black magic specialist in bangladesh

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                            • #15
                              I also get the same depression mood effect from rice. Any kind of rice. I have no problem at all with wheat, oats, potatoes, bananas or even small amounts of sugar etc but rice is terrible. I feel ok immediately after eating if. The effect usually comes by the next day if not earlier without fail. A very nervous, anxious and doomy depression that last for a few days, sometimes a little longer. I actually discovered this a long while ago while doing an elimination diet, the starch of which was "hypoallergenic" rice. It was terrible. Anway, If I strictly avoid rice, I have a consistently good positive mood.

                              Sometimes, after not having rice for a while, many months to a year say, I will give it a try in small amounts, forgetting how bad the effect is and thinking that maybe my system is less sensitized having not had any for a while. I did that recently with some brown rice. Next day, bang. The funny thing is I couldn't figure out why I was feeling so blue and dark and anxious and overwhelmed at first. Especially since situationally things were/are very good and pleasant. Finally duh I remembered, I had brown rice. A few days later, it slipped away. So for me anyway it is something I need to not eat and something that does not improve.

                              Maybe its a gut flora thing or perhaps a type of allergy/intolerance to rice protein that may or may not involve the immune system... I don't know. I know it is consistent over decades and pretty bad. Thankfully it is easy to avoid and I never really crave it but sometimes I miss it and the variety it lends to menu planning. And certain cuisines are just not the same without it. It's always pretty shocking to me how bad and all encompassing the effect is. I stay away.
                              Last edited by tenster; 12-11-2014, 05:57 PM.

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