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  • Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
    I've been lurking the forum for a while, just recently began contributing more regularly, and I've seen that eKatherine has the tendency to overreact/put words in your mouth if you say something that doesn't mesh with her opinions. Just what I've seen, not a personal attack at all.
    You and I disagree on some basic things. I personally think that 7-10% of the population that you suggest may have gluten intolerance is actually a whole lot of people, more than most illnesses about which public policy steps in.

    I was actually surprised when you gave such a large number, because although I believe it is that large (actually I believe in the concept of a continuum of symptoms), I normally use 1% as an estimate, which means I add 1% celiac + 1% gluten intolerant + 1% wheat allergic to get a 3% total. That's still a huge number of people whose lives are negatively impacted by the ubiquitousness of wheat in our food supply.

    I don't know the perfect solution, but if we were concerned about health from a public policy standpoint, we wouldn't be waiting 10 years on the average for celiac sufferers to be incidentally diagnosed before giving such members of the public the information they could have used to improve their health. We wouldn't be limiting the diagnosis and treatment to people who figured out their problem and self-diagnosed it over the internet first, then went to pay a doctor $5K for invasive tests.

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    • No JJ is correct (based on the research I have read). Celiac is approximately 1% and gluten intolerant is estimated at 10%, however I'm not sure how much higher wheat allergic takes you. I kinda forget where it went. Here is an article that quotes a few of the researchers in the field though.

      How Many People Have Gluten Sensitivity

      I'm of the mind that gluten sensitivity ranks in the 30-50% range (possibly higher than fifty% as it seems to keep rising) and increases in prevalence with age. As such it may either be a causative factor or co-morbidity associated with many of the diseases of aging. Be it autoimmune, GI, headache/migraine...ect. Consider that most AI diseases begin in the 4th decade

      Its all quite debatable right now, but I do believe that if you look at the data critically.... and include the prevalence and association of the other diseases associated with it then you come to the conclusion (or opinion if you like) that gluten really does effect a rather large portion of the population negatively. IMO the peak of the bell curve is gluten sensitive.
      Last edited by Neckhammer; 06-25-2013, 12:17 PM.

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      • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
        Its all quite debatable right now, but I do believe that if you look at the data critically.... and include the prevalence and association of the other diseases associated with it then you come to the conclusion (or opinion if you like) that gluten really does effect a rather large portion of the population negatively. IMO the peak of the bell curve is gluten sensitive.
        +1
        The Champagne of Beards

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        • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
          I keep coming back to this trying to figure out how to respond. I know that later you claimed you had no idea calling someone a "troll" was not a deliberate insult.

          But the idea that I have ever told people that they shouldn't eat eggs or wheat because they make me sick... I have never said that. So the question is, why would you be saying something that is demonstrably untrue? How would someone who has only been on the forum for a few days know that months ago I was posting about working through my egg sensitivities?

          Well, you could be a sock puppet.
          I have literally no idea what you are talking about.

          This is what you wrote to me in a previous post:

          "We people who eat wheat and claim to be sick for weeks are just making it up to annoy you, because clearly the fact that 100% of Parisians don't have gluten intolerance is proof it doesn't exist and is a figment of our imaginations."

          I never said that 100% of Parisians do not have gluten intolerance. I simply said that the majority of people can handle wheat just fine. I never said people who cannot handle wheat are making it up. Just that it's a minority. Hence, my example with eggs sensitivities...if a minority of the population has egg sensitivity, it does not mean that everyone has it and that eggs are bad for everyone. Please let me know if something is not clear to you.

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          • Wheat makes me breakout. Not sure what it is in wheat that does that, but it's enough reason to stay away from it. I had wheat for the first time in months over the weekend. I expected to experience some kind of gastrointestinal distress from it, but i really didn't. Did make me breakout though. This morning. Sigh.
            Same here! I don't know if it's the gluten or the wheat itself, but when I stay off wheat and gluten completely, my skin clears up. When I cheat with even a tiny bit of wheat, I can expect a cascade of little hormonal breakouts 2-3 days later, that last for about a week. It's not bad cystic acne, just annoying, consistent little breakouts along the jaw and neck.

            The only time wheat hurts my stomach is if I have a crazy wheat-feast. On very rare occasions, I've been known to have a "DIE PALEO DIE" meltdown, and have a dinner of, like, pizza, beer, garlic knots, cookies, more beer... essentially 100% wheat. Afterward, my stomach HURTS and I can't poo for days (not really a shock, and I think this is more about the sudden flood of a substance I almost never eat, rather than true gluten intolerance). But just a little wheat cheat here and there, like a cookie, piece of toast, or single beer? No GI distress, just a breakout 2 days later like clockwork.

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            • Originally posted by sauerKraut View Post
              I have literally no idea what you are talking about.

              This is what you wrote to me in a previous post:

              "We people who eat wheat and claim to be sick for weeks are just making it up to annoy you, because clearly the fact that 100% of Parisians don't have gluten intolerance is proof it doesn't exist and is a figment of our imaginations."

              I never said that 100% of Parisians do not have gluten intolerance. I simply said that the majority of people can handle wheat just fine. I never said people who cannot handle wheat are making it up. Just that it's a minority. Hence, my example with eggs sensitivities...if a minority of the population has egg sensitivity, it does not mean that everyone has it and that eggs are bad for everyone. Please let me know if something is not clear to you.
              You just said that going to Paris and watching people eat bread there would somehow prove us wrong in some indefinable way, as though watching people eat bread in Paris is different from watching people eat bread here.

              The idea that people who avoid gluten because it makes them sick have an irrational fear of gluten is clearly something only someone who is opposed to the concept of gluten intolerance would say.
              Last edited by eKatherine; 06-25-2013, 01:22 PM.

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              • Originally posted by heatseeker View Post
                Afterward, my stomach HURTS and I can't poo for days (not really a shock, and I think this is more about the sudden flood of a substance I almost never eat, rather than true gluten intolerance).
                Hmm, after a wheat cheat (hey, that rhymes) I usually don't poo for a day, but then I take the poo of all poos, like have to flush twice to even...

                Ok, sorry, back on topic, gluten is bad and all that.

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                • Originally posted by troubledstudent View Post
                  Glad I got your attention.

                  I'm pretty young, @ 19 years old, so it's uncommon for guys my age to be eating healthy. When my friends ask me about Primal Eating and I mention that wheat is terrible for us, they go on to respond that they eat it all the time and dont seem to be having any problems.

                  And I kind of don't know how to respond to that, I guess it's just cause they're young and disease hasn't quite crept up on them yet (even though I have all sorts of symptoms... which I think have been slowly improving since eating Primal). A lot of people spend their whole lives eating wheat and the decreased immune function, impaired digestion, etc doesn't appear to be affecting a whole lot of people.

                  Does the body get used to dealing with it, or is it genetics? or what? I guess I'm also just frustrated that so many people can eat pretty terribly and the worst thing they get is keratosis pilaris. I feel like I was a born with a defective body or something.
                  Whatever happened to our troubledstudent,
                  or are we really talking problem child?

                  2 threads started, no replies, maybe too much time on public computers, beginning to suspect we may have a mole in our midst.

                  As for the wheat thing, I'm anti for the same reasons others are,
                  I have moderate side effects,
                  My research indicates the problem is far bigger than anyone suspects,
                  There is no compelling reason to eat it from a nutritional point of view.

                  So as mentioned multiple times in different wording it is a high risk product with low reward potential,
                  if it were a financial investment product, high risk low return, no one would touch it with a barge pole.

                  The pro wheat argument seems to pretty much be based on the thread title, many eat it and seem to be fine.
                  I thought about that and find it ironic that so many of these individuals have very strong negative views about Soy, PUFA's, feedlot meat etc, yet somehow wheat seems to be an exclusion in their eyes.
                  From what I have seen the evidence is no stronger or weaker, one can merely say many people eat SAD and seem to do fine.
                  Choosing a diet & lifestyle for better health is always going to be opinion based, sure there is some evidence, but very little is overwhelming, so it will always come down to a personal judgement of risk vs reward based on the information one has available and the weighting they give to this information.
                  The argument that many people eat it and seem to do fine is ineffective as we can simply point out that this group of many is the ones who are developing chronic diseases, trying to counter this with confounders is pointless because the confounders were already present in the original statement.
                  So the statement could easily and justifyably be re-phrased:
                  Many people eat wheat and go on to develop chronic disease.
                  Last edited by Omni; 06-25-2013, 03:49 PM.
                  "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                  • Originally posted by troubledstudent View Post
                    Glad I got your attention.

                    I'm pretty young, @ 19 years old, so it's uncommon for guys my age to be eating healthy. When my friends ask me about Primal Eating and I mention that wheat is terrible for us, they go on to respond that they eat it all the time and dont seem to be having any problems.

                    And I kind of don't know how to respond to that, I guess it's just cause they're young and disease hasn't quite crept up on them yet (even though I have all sorts of symptoms... which I think have been slowly improving since eating Primal). A lot of people spend their whole lives eating wheat and the decreased immune function, impaired digestion, etc doesn't appear to be affecting a whole lot of people.

                    Does the body get used to dealing with it, or is it genetics? or what? I guess I'm also just frustrated that so many people can eat pretty terribly and the worst thing they get is keratosis pilaris. I feel like I was a born with a defective body or something.
                    It's genetic luck. Until recently I've eaten wheat and had no real effects... or at least, no recognizable ones. I did end up over 300 lbs, but I didn't know that was from wheat. I had no problems with my bowels, no IBS. I did have keratosis but I thought it was just a rash. I sometimes wish I had had some dramatic symptoms. Maybe it wouldn't have taken so long to realize that my diet was wrong for me. SO I don't think that being 'fine' with gluten is necessarily a good thing. Although it does mean I can cheat on rare occassion without much consequences.
                    Out of context quote for the day:

                    Clearly Gorbag is so awesome he should be cloned, reproducing in the normal manner would only dilute his awesomeness. - Urban Forager

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                    • Originally posted by Wildrose View Post
                      I did end up over 300 lbs, but I didn't know that was from wheat.
                      You're contributing this entirely to wheat? Not trying to argue, just wondering.
                      My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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                      • Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
                        You're contributing this entirely to wheat? Not trying to argue, just wondering.
                        I'm sure it was the sugar too. But I'm sure the wheat had a lot to do with it. I started losing weight even before I went primal, after I moved home. My mom rarely ate bread just because she was on Weight Watchers and it was too expensive in points, so it often wasn't in the house.
                        Out of context quote for the day:

                        Clearly Gorbag is so awesome he should be cloned, reproducing in the normal manner would only dilute his awesomeness. - Urban Forager

                        Comment


                        • I wish this happened to me.

                          Originally posted by kiwigal View Post
                          I didn't know how good I felt until I gave up wheat.

                          Depression gone, fatigue gone, energy went up, motivation and desire to check back into life went up.
                          Acne gone. I could go on for hours


                          I cut out wheat and the other bad stuff and I now have all of your symptoms, any idea as to why?

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                          • Originally posted by Wildrose View Post
                            I'm sure it was the sugar too. But I'm sure the wheat had a lot to do with it. I started losing weight even before I went primal, after I moved home. My mom rarely ate bread just because she was on Weight Watchers and it was too expensive in points, so it often wasn't in the house.
                            Excess calories should undoubtedly shoulder a lot of the blame, no?
                            My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by jakejoh10 View Post
                              Excess calories should undoubtedly shoulder a lot of the blame, no?
                              How?, you either burn them off or get fat.

                              Sounds like you're clutching at straws.
                              "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Omni View Post
                                How?, you either burn them off or get fat.

                                Sounds like you're clutching at straws.
                                Huh? I'm sorry, I don't think I understand what you're getting at. Are you asking how excess calories contribute to excess weight gain?
                                My nutrition/fitness/critical thinking blog:

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