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dilberryhoundog's whole 30 eating protocol

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  • #16
    It's kind of like cross-fit for your diet. Keep your body guessing and ready for anything. Makes sense but I wonder if there's a point where you can go overboard with the randomness, or to put it another way, if there is a sweet spot for randomness.
    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by diene View Post
      Hey, hey, here I am. Ready to start this protocol. Remember, I'm going to be combining it with Johnson's up day down day. So all of the low-calorie/intermittent fasting challenges will be taken care of by my down days. On up days, I will switch things around and try the different challenges. I have some initial questions. On meat days, carb days, and veggie/fruit days, you said that you should eat predominantly meat, carb, and fruit/veggies. So does that mean you can still eat a small amount of the other stuff? How much? Basically, what I want to know is, will I be able to have butter with my potatoes on carb days and some amount of protein? I would also need some protein on the veggie/fruit days. Since these are going to be my up days and since I eat very little on down days, I don't think I can go a whole day without any animal protein.

      You mentioned a measly square of dark chocolate as a reward in the fourth week. I assume that means no sweets normally?

      What about alcohol? I don't think it's possible for me to give up alcohol for a month (yeah, I know) so whatever you say, I will probably continue drinking (not everyday though). But let's clarify the protocol for posterity's sake!
      Welcome on board, diene
      yeah the ADF should be no worries, just remember to keep 1 or 2 "normal" days in your up days, as a bit of a rest. You could also vary the food that you do eat on the down days also (eg tuesday week 1 low cal mainly carbs, wednesday week 2 low cal, mainly meat).

      The question about full compliance to a meat/carb day etc is a good one. Yep an amount of other stuff is the way to go, this protocol is not about restricting foods you want to eat, its about not forcing yourself to eat the same everyday. I like eating fruit, so instead of apportioning the servings out equally over the week i just get in and eat all the yummy fruit on a day (usually straight after we have bought them) and some more on some other days. A few days later or when an opportunity arises I love meat, so I dig in and eat mostly meat.
      your basic aim is to give your self a macro LOAD for a day, if it means you need butter on your spuds to do that, well don't hold back, lather em up with butter, or if you need to add a few slices of veges and sauce (mainly meat stirfry, awesome) to your protein load to make it taste great, go to town on it.
      So in summary i don't think zeroing off two macros while you max out the third is a great way to eat. I'm basically an opportunistic eater... if i see some good fresh meat on sale instead of putting 80% in the freezer to eat regularly over the week, i keep it in the fridge (mmm fresh) and use it up fast, but still in meals with some other foodstuffs. same goes for fruit, same goes for vegges.

      Alcohol is the same deal as coffee, its not a great concern unless your systems start to get run down dealing with it often (chronic). I have a beer or two every week and will have a 6 pack at a party once in a while, I think its great because it still keeps my metabolism on its toes, dealing with alcohol is a welcome challenge for it, like climbing a wall or running 5km, you just don't want to be running or climbing allday everyday.
      Same goes with chocolate, if you wan't to have some chocolate or there's something too good to pass up, have some. Think of it like a challenge, add it to the list of things your metabolism can do, just don't put your metabolism under pressure dealing with it on a daily basis. I use this same mentality for other "baddies", I will have some deep fried chips once in a while, or a piece (or 2) of birthday cake, just to keep my metabolism used to dealing with it, but far from regularly enough to do damage from chronically eating the stuff.

      hope that makes things a bit clearer for you
      Good luck
      A little primal gem - My Success Story
      Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

      Comment


      • #18
        dbhd, I read something similar today that was linked from a post on the Starting Strength site. I know the 180 degree heatlh guy can be a bit of a whackjob, but what he described is exactly my experience. Any new thing I try results in miraculous, effortless weight loss, but the weight always comes back. Like recently I took an Oly weightlifting class and I lost a lot of weight right away even though we barely did anything in the class at first. A little bit of jumping around with the empty bar, not really a lot of calories burned or anything. But man did I feel super healthy, alert and amazing and my clothes suddenly got loose. Now? Back to normal.

        Anyway, he calls it a "catecholamine honeymoon."
        The Catecholamine Honeymoon – 180 Degree Health

        It looks like your diet plan exploits this catecholamine honeymoon.
        Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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        • #19
          I've pretty much eat this way as a norm. Except for the breakfast thing. Always skip it.
          Last edited by Neckhammer; 06-17-2013, 06:34 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by gopintos View Post
            I dont mean to hijack, but wanted to share this since it is based on eating for your metabolism also. I dont know if the info is right or wrong, just sharing

            On Fast Metabolism Diet, she says no caffeine also. In a subsequent email - not in the book, she said:
            Thanks for the info gopintos. WHere do you stand on the coffee thing? I gave it up on two occasions in my life: for a year each time, and honestly noticed no positive effects... In fact, I noticed a lack of positive effects, cos' I was no longer getting the lovely coffee pick-me-up

            Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
            Hey hey, welcome yogabare, really glad your giving this a shot, I hope it does well for ya.

            Regarding your questions, first one coffee:

            I'm not against having a coffee and i don't believe that one or two in a day is gunna rage through your metabolism causing untold destruction, the reason I said skip having one for a few days a week is this:
            If you drink coffee each morning or any time really it does the "heavy lifting" of getting you up and going. Now when you skip it your body (metabolism) has to get you up and going all by it self, this is actually another tool your metabolism has in its arsenal (the metabolism kick starting it self tool). If you drink coffee to do this job each and every day this metabolic tool gets atrophied. If you are a big coffee addict (heaps of cups a day) take it slowly, your metabolism kick starting tool won't be very good yet, it might take you to do it a little easier like say.... start off reducing your coffee per day, after that's mastered, only once a week skip it on a non critical (non work etc) day, when you master that, then you can skip it a few times a week.

            Regarding my BED,
            My whole life basically I always ate heaps ( i mean heaps more than any body i knew), Im not sure when the binge eating actually started. As a teenager i was so active that my eating large amounts didn't really affect my body composition too much (I was skinny ) As i slowed down in my twenties i think i slipped into BED as i would eat from about 2-4pm right through to midnight most days, as my activity level slowed my body really started changing as you might see in the photo's in my success story.
            Thanks DH - that makes to me sense about the coffee.

            And thanks for the info about you BED. Just wondering, when you were binging on a daily basis, were you also obsessed with food, and thoughts of your body? If so, did this end?
            "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

            In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

            - Ray Peat

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
              It's kind of like cross-fit for your diet. Keep your body guessing and ready for anything. Makes sense but I wonder if there's a point where you can go overboard with the randomness, or to put it another way, if there is a sweet spot for randomness.
              I think there probably is a randomness sweetspot for diet, atm I tie my diet into my random life so my diet is really just following along. For a new starter I imagine that the sweet spot would move as your metabolism got more "sexy" (better able to handle challenges)

              Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
              dbhd, I read something similar today that was linked from a post on the Starting Strength site. I know the 180 degree heatlh guy can be a bit of a whackjob, but what he described is exactly my experience. Any new thing I try results in miraculous, effortless weight loss, but the weight always comes back. Like recently I took an Oly weightlifting class and I lost a lot of weight right away even though we barely did anything in the class at first. A little bit of jumping around with the empty bar, not really a lot of calories burned or anything. But man did I feel super healthy, alert and amazing and my clothes suddenly got loose. Now? Back to normal.

              Anyway, he calls it a "catecholamine honeymoon."
              The Catecholamine Honeymoon – 180 Degree Health

              It looks like your diet plan exploits this catecholamine honeymoon.
              Interesting, thanks for quoting.

              Yeah I can definately see how my protocol fits into his catecholamine honeymoon. By following my protocol you are doing the equivalent of starting a new routine every couple of days, raising your catecholamine levels, a day later your back to normal so you've then lowered them again, the day after you've raised them again by starting something different. I can see why this worked because I never reached a state where I became insensitive to Catecholamine, and never suffered adrenal fatigue or any other metabolic system fatigue.
              A little primal gem - My Success Story
              Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                Welcome on board, diene
                yeah the ADF should be no worries, just remember to keep 1 or 2 "normal" days in your up days, as a bit of a rest. You could also vary the food that you do eat on the down days also (eg tuesday week 1 low cal mainly carbs, wednesday week 2 low cal, mainly meat).

                The question about full compliance to a meat/carb day etc is a good one. Yep an amount of other stuff is the way to go, this protocol is not about restricting foods you want to eat, its about not forcing yourself to eat the same everyday. I like eating fruit, so instead of apportioning the servings out equally over the week i just get in and eat all the yummy fruit on a day (usually straight after we have bought them) and some more on some other days. A few days later or when an opportunity arises I love meat, so I dig in and eat mostly meat.
                your basic aim is to give your self a macro LOAD for a day, if it means you need butter on your spuds to do that, well don't hold back, lather em up with butter, or if you need to add a few slices of veges and sauce (mainly meat stirfry, awesome) to your protein load to make it taste great, go to town on it.
                So in summary i don't think zeroing off two macros while you max out the third is a great way to eat. I'm basically an opportunistic eater... if i see some good fresh meat on sale instead of putting 80% in the freezer to eat regularly over the week, i keep it in the fridge (mmm fresh) and use it up fast, but still in meals with some other foodstuffs. same goes for fruit, same goes for vegges.

                Alcohol is the same deal as coffee, its not a great concern unless your systems start to get run down dealing with it often (chronic). I have a beer or two every week and will have a 6 pack at a party once in a while, I think its great because it still keeps my metabolism on its toes, dealing with alcohol is a welcome challenge for it, like climbing a wall or running 5km, you just don't want to be running or climbing allday everyday.
                Same goes with chocolate, if you wan't to have some chocolate or there's something too good to pass up, have some. Think of it like a challenge, add it to the list of things your metabolism can do, just don't put your metabolism under pressure dealing with it on a daily basis. I use this same mentality for other "baddies", I will have some deep fried chips once in a while, or a piece (or 2) of birthday cake, just to keep my metabolism used to dealing with it, but far from regularly enough to do damage from chronically eating the stuff.

                hope that makes things a bit clearer for you
                Good luck
                Thanks! That definitely clears things up! I don't drink alcohol or eat chocolate every day (thankfully), and I don't usually drink coffee on weekends. But I'll *try* to have one weekday a week during which I don't drink coffee (may or may not happen this week--this is a tough one due to incredibly boring work causing me to want to fall asleep in the absence of caffeine).

                I'm doing a starch day today so potatoes, sweet potatoes, taro, and rice. I had some protein in the form of a protein shake and a 1/4-lb burger. And dabs of butter with the taters.

                Yesterday's down day was a protein only day. I only had a tiny bit of chicken breast. Not sure what I'll do for tomorrow's DD. Maybe just a bit of veggies and a piece of fruit. Thursday will be a meat day.

                My journal

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                  Thanks for the info gopintos. WHere do you stand on the coffee thing? I gave it up on two occasions in my life: for a year each time, and honestly noticed no positive effects... In fact, I noticed a lack of positive effects, cos' I was no longer getting the lovely coffee pick-me-up
                  I can take it or leave it. I didnt start to drink coffee until I found MDA, which lead me to find BP Coffee. So I dont know that it gave me a pick me up or not, but when I was IFing and fasting 24-48, weight loss stopped. Well it would go down but then right back up. Just enough to tease me and make me think I was really doing something. But I just know that following her protocol, while keeping it fairly Primal & PHD, I am losing weight again, which is very similar to this, so I think this is a good thing. Every couple of days you are switching it up.

                  The BP Coffee was my breakfast. And now I am eating breakfast again, and losing again. I have a theory on Breakfast, that I have been thinking about since someone asked a breakfast question in another thread, so I won't bore with it here. I will bore on that thread when I get around to having time
                  Last edited by gopintos; 06-18-2013, 10:41 AM.
                  65lbs gone and counting!!

                  Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    DH, Just wondering about energy levels. By rights, improving the metabolism should improve energy levels. How was your energy before you started this protocol, and did you notice an improvement with it?

                    Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                    I have a theory on Breakfast, that I have been thinking about since someone asked a breakfast question in another thread, so I won't bore with it here. I will bore on that thread when I get around to having time
                    Please do share!
                    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                    - Ray Peat

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                      DH, Just wondering about energy levels. By rights, improving the metabolism should improve energy levels. How was your energy before you started this protocol, and did you notice an improvement with it?
                      Shit yeah, massive improvement. I have better: moods, skin, sex, hair, energy levels, fitness, healing, sickness avoidance, teeth. I put this half down to avoiding toxic foods (reduceing the destructive stresses that I would have to heal up from) by eating primal foods. The other half I put down to eating a varied diet reducing the chronic stresses I have to deal with.

                      On that other question of psychological effects of BED? I didn't really have my diet and body image in the forefront of my thinking for nearly all years. I always just thought I was a "big guy" who "ate a lot". It wasn't until late last year when I did a "lets see how fat I am" test (BMI) on the Internet. "Holy shit, I'm well and truly in the obese category" "I gotta do something about this" was when I found I had a problem, I self diagnosed BED and then the rest is history as they say.
                      Hope that helps



                      Sent from my iPhone using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
                      A little primal gem - My Success Story
                      Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                        Shit yeah, massive improvement. I have better: moods, skin, sex, hair, energy levels, fitness, healing, sickness avoidance, teeth. I put this half down to avoiding toxic foods (reduceing the destructive stresses that I would have to heal up from) by eating primal foods. The other half I put down to eating a varied diet reducing the chronic stresses I have to deal with.

                        On that other question of psychological effects of BED? I didn't really have my diet and body image in the forefront of my thinking for nearly all years. I always just thought I was a "big guy" who "ate a lot". It wasn't until late last year when I did a "lets see how fat I am" test (BMI) on the Internet. "Holy shit, I'm well and truly in the obese category" "I gotta do something about this" was when I found I had a problem, I self diagnosed BED and then the rest is history as they say.
                        Hope that helps
                        Thanks for the answers! I guess what I'm asking more specifically is - did you notice an improvement in energy from the shift in just primal eating, to your strategically-random eating (aka Catecholamine promoting) protocol?

                        I wouldn't class you as having had an ED. Maybe you were addicted to shit food or a chronic overeater, but for imo binging is a different beast, very much tied with body image / self hatred / control issues / escapism etc. Correct me if I'm wrong!
                        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                        - Ray Peat

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                          Please do share!
                          ok, I did, but I talk in circles... babble really. I am sure it made no sense, and that is okay. I was just typing out loud

                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1225337
                          65lbs gone and counting!!

                          Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                            Thanks for the answers! I guess what I'm asking more specifically is - did you notice an improvement in energy from the shift in just primal eating, to your strategically-random eating (aka Catecholamine promoting) protocol?

                            I wouldn't class you as having had an ED. Maybe you were addicted to shit food or a chronic overeater, but for imo binging is a different beast, very much tied with body image / self hatred / control issues / escapism etc. Correct me if I'm wrong!
                            Ok I'm with you now.

                            It was hard to tell how much to attribute to either stressor, as I did both at the same time. although....

                            I can tell specifically when my diet is starting to be repeated day after day. I start to feel a little worn out and run down, nothing major tho, just some indicators (I probably don't keep on going for long enough to get any significant side effects).
                            It is a very similar feeling to when I've been doing chronic exercise for a week or 2, you feel just a little off or flat. I imagine had I kept on chronically exercising I would've started feeling worse and worse. Mostly I throw in a IF or change something up and i feel fresh again the day after.

                            A side note, I am now also an "opportunistic" excerciser, In six months i think i did 5 different fitness protocols (YAYOG, PBF, CC, SS, one other I can't remember) I think the same effect happened as what I talk about with my diet. Great gains and energy in the first few weeks, but then they start to make you feel worn out, lose momentum and inspiration. I currently exercise when the opportunity arises. If I spot a horizontal bar when taking the kids to the park, I bash out a few chin ups. A park bench = a few elevated pushups, a tree = I climb it (yes it looks funny a 30 year old up a tree).

                            Regarding the ED, I was never diagnosed by a doctor so I don't know, you could very well be right. But.... there was an emotional factor; escapism from your above description hit a chord. Body image issues wasn't a factor, because it started while I was a lean teen/ early twenties (being big as a guy can also lead to adulation not derision from your peers), I didn't self hate, altho I had a lot of self esteem issues as a kid / teen. I did have control issues at some points in my life but not with food (earlier stages I wore it as a badge of honour that I could eat massive amounts of food). I think escapism played a big part tho, if i was depressed my eating would worsen.
                            Is that clearer?
                            A little primal gem - My Success Story
                            Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I gave up coffee before I hiked the Pacific Crest Trail so that I would not need to fuss with making coffee on the trail. I did not notice anything different about giving up coffee. Hiking a daily marathon makes a person quite hungry after a month or so. So any chance I got I would try and get a hot breakfast. I would take detours from the trail if it was only a few miles to a restaurant. For the longest time I thought it was the pancakes and eggs that gave me so much energy but then I realized it was the coffee. It was an AMAZING energy boost, too. Once I carried some energy gummy bears I picked up in a gas station. I ate them as a snack somewhere in the wilderness and then oh man I was flying so high that I hiked up these steep switchbacks at like 4 or 5 miles an hour and passed all these people one after the other, practically knocked them over out of my way. I put in like 10 miles flying like this until I crashed, but I did manage to put in 25 miles that day and make it out to another restaurant by late afternoon, just in time for a big dinner. So really the only energy boost I got from quitting coffee was that when I did have caffeine it worked really really well.
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                                So really the only energy boost I got from quitting coffee was that when I did have caffeine it worked really really well.
                                I have been reading something similar lately, though I can't recall where. That if you drink lots, you dont have good benefits, but if you limit to like a cup or two a day or something, you can reap benefits.

                                25 miles a day. You are a machine.
                                65lbs gone and counting!!

                                Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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