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Being Very low carb or Keto-adapted full time?

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  • Being Very low carb or Keto-adapted full time?

    Once keto-adapted most VL-carbers agree that the food binge and thinking about foods all the time will change to where you hardly think about food and instead have one or two meals instead per day.

    So myself after about 4-5 week and becoming keto-adapted i found this to be true, the appetite was gone, as were the nightly munchies.

    But does anybody really think our ancestors would have felt this way about food? To hardly ever feel hungry while in ketosis all year round? I'm not sure.

    I went from thinking about food all the time to not being hungry at all, morning, lunch and 5pm would come around, and i would still not even the slightest be thinking about eating anything, 6pm than around 7pm finally i would cook up something and be done with it not even enjoying the meal really, well nothing like previously anyway.

    I read on low carb, forums others asking what to do when they don't feel hungry at all, to force food down or just let it be and wait till hunger come back and eat the next day instead.

    This seems weird to me, I don't think our ancestors would have been like this all year round, instead i think they would have savaged a fresh live game kill, and lapped it up licking their fingers.

    I had one carby meal after a week or two of being keto-adapted which kicked me out of ketosis, and the appetite was back as were the munchies

    So I'm thinking if keto-adaption and being in ketosis is the way our ancestors wold have done it?

    Some will say humans are fat burners and being in ketosis is natural all year round, but not sure i agree, maybe, thoughts?
    Last edited by sting; 06-15-2013, 01:48 AM.

  • #2
    Hi sting, I don't know how to highlight quotes, but your " I had one carby meal after a week or two of being keto-adapted which kicked me out of ketosis, and the appetite was back as were the munchies" comment only goes to show how much addictive carbohydrates really are.
    FTM. I'm not biased, I hope everybody beats the mags!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Sol blackcat View Post
      Hi sting, I don't know how to highlight quotes, but your " I had one carby meal after a week or two of being keto-adapted which kicked me out of ketosis, and the appetite was back as were the munchies" comment only goes to show how much addictive carbohydrates really are.
      Agree Sol blackcat but i thinks its, because of all the different food options that we have, and we crave unlike our ancestors who would have not had the option unless fruits were in season.

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      • #4
        Also regarding the above, Ron Rosedale who i think knows his stuff re ketosis, I have been reading lot of his material in the last week, has one little question mark over all his logic.

        He says "we are meant to be fat burners, and to eat a high fat diet, low protein!".

        Basically says we need Zero carbs really, and suggest to include veggies.

        But at the same time, always says we should only have a small portion of meat the size of a deck of cards around 60-70g in 3 separate meals, total >> (~20g per meal) as any extra protein becomes glucose which raises insulin.

        Now the problem with all this is , i just don't see our ancestors eating a fresh piece of kill a leg or whatever, and than suddenly saying wait its 20g of protein we better stop, that's enough

        Instead i picture them grabbing a leg and hammering into it, and likely eating a lot of protein which likely don't leave them in ketosis.

        Now i know Dr Stephen Phinney mentions they used to eat the fat and throw away the meat to the dogs, now I'm not sure about this...People like to chop into a piece of steak or chicken leg, and even now are still doing it - people are eating very high protein diets with more meat, like steak and veggies steak and potatoes etc.

        Do people throw away steak now and only eat the fat? no, why? because people like steak, chicken legs, wings all the protein parts, and why would that have been different than? doubt it would have IMO.
        Last edited by sting; 06-15-2013, 03:55 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by sting View Post
          Agree Sol blackcat but i thinks its, because of all the different food options that we have, and we crave unlike our ancestors who would have not had the option unless fruits were in season.
          They would have only been able to go around bashing in heads until craving went away. Grumpy Grok
          “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
          Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

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          • #6
            Originally posted by loafingcactus View Post
            They would have only been able to go around bashing in heads until craving went away. Grumpy Grok
            mad at me why?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sol blackcat View Post
              Hi sting, I don't know how to highlight quotes, but your " I had one carby meal after a week or two of being keto-adapted which kicked me out of ketosis, and the appetite was back as were the munchies" comment only goes to show how much addictive carbohydrates really are.
              No, there is nothing wrong with carbohydrates as a macronutrient. Certain carbs, such as wheat and its byproducts, yes.

              He was hungrier because he was out of ketosis.

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              • #8
                the lifestyle of our ancestors was probably more like feast and famine. So you would have large portions of meat or rodents or insects or roots, and then nothing for awhile.

                So the issue is and always has been, how do we eat in a way that takes the modern 24 X 7 availability of all sorts of food and "food" into account?

                I am keto adapted but I think of food all the time. I'm still hungry. I eat 2 or 3 meals. I snack a bit. I am not sure why. One thing different is that I eat about 1/3 of what I used to eat. And I get "not hungry anymore" signals instantly when I'm in the middle of dinner (and then I stop eating.) I used to feel like stuffing myself.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by richard View Post
                  the lifestyle of our ancestors was probably more like feast and famine. So you would have large portions of meat or rodents or insects or roots, and then nothing for awhile.

                  So the issue is and always has been, how do we eat in a way that takes the modern 24 X 7 availability of all sorts of food and "food" into account?

                  I am keto adapted but I think of food all the time. I'm still hungry. I eat 2 or 3 meals. I snack a bit. I am not sure why. One thing different is that I eat about 1/3 of what I used to eat. And I get "not hungry anymore" signals instantly when I'm in the middle of dinner (and then I stop eating.) I used to feel like stuffing myself.

                  When you say your still hungry - sure after days of hunger and built up hunger from previous days maybe, just saying.

                  Regarding feats and famine Dr Stephen Phinney mentioned they stored food, but likely run out at times also, more what i was trying to say re thread is - is being in ketosis all year something our ancestors done?

                  If they did feast and famine, they would have had a 2-3 days feasting on kills, which would have kicked them out of ketosis, also while fruits were in season they would have been kicked out of ketosis, so just trying to say i doubt they were in ketosis all year round, while followers of the Keto diet are now staying in ketosis all year round,
                  Last edited by sting; 06-15-2013, 05:33 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sting View Post
                    When you say your still hungry - sure after days of hunger and built up hunger from previous days maybe, just saying.
                    When I have been VLC and in ketosis, I definitely experience real hunger when mealtime comes up.

                    Regarding feats and famine Dr Stephen Phinney mentioned they stored food, but likely run out at times also, more what i was trying to say re thread is - is being in ketosis all year something our ancestors done?
                    Who is this "they" who stored food? What sort of food did they store, and where and how did they store it? We have no evidence of food storage until quite recently on the evolutionary scale. Did Neanderthals store food? Did Homo Erectus? Did Australopithecus?

                    On the African savanna they stored raw brains and marrow scavenged from the prey of large predators? How?

                    Just because our recent Paleo contemporaries stored food does not mean our ancestors were able to store more than a few days of root vegetables.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                      Who is this "they" who stored food? What sort of food did they store, and where and how did they store it? We have no evidence of food storage until quite recently on the evolutionary scale. Did Neanderthals store food? Did Homo Erectus? Did Australopithecus?
                      They stored food for months

                      He talks about it in this interview Low Carb Living - YouTube

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sting View Post
                        mad at me why?
                        No, no.

                        Grump Grok mad because he can't feed his craving. It was fuuunnnny.
                        “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
                        Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

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                        • #13
                          cave-man-social-media-mashable-comic-640.jpg

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sting View Post
                            They stored food for months

                            He talks about it in this interview Low Carb Living - YouTube
                            No. I'm not going to watch a 27 minute video because you won't answer the question or don't recall the answer.

                            Even modern nomadic people cannot store more than a few days of food.

                            There is no archeological evidence of significant quantities of food being stored before neolithic times, except as a rare exception.
                            Last edited by eKatherine; 06-15-2013, 06:19 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                              No. I'm not going to watch a 27 minute video because you won't answer the question or don't recall the answer.

                              Even modern nomadic people cannot store more than a few days of food.

                              There is no archeological evidence of significant quantities of food being stored before neolithic times, except as a rare exception.
                              He was eating fish, quail, buffalo. We assume that he ate a lot of protein. In actuality, it appears that what the native people did is to time their hunts, and select the animals they hunted for very high levels of body fat. If you killed a buffalo in the fall or early winter, you killed an animal with a lot of body fat. By the way, they generally hunted in small groups. You might have 15-30 people in a hunting party. An adult cow would weigh around 1,000 pounds. A bull would weigh between 2,000 and 2,500 pounds. Now, suppose it’s, say, October? And the daytime temperatures are way above freezing? What do you do with 1,500 pounds of buffalo, and there are only 15 of you?

                              Once they killed the buffalo they would pitch their tent and go to work on the carcass. They would skin the carcass and they would work with the skin. They would cut the meat and dry most of it, and they would cut away and save the fat. Within 2 or three days they would have pretty much dealt with the whole carcass. They would take the fat and cook it into liquid fat. They would sew sacks out of part of the hide with the hair on the outside and the rawhide skin on the inside, and they would stuff pounded dried meat into the sacks, and then they would take hot buffalo fat and pour it in to fill in all the air spaces around the meat. Pouring it in hot and then sewing the sack closed with no air killed any bacteria, so when it was cooled, you’d have a solid block of sterilized meat and fat. And that was called pemmican.

                              Pemmican once it was produced in that way could be transported and stored anywhere from six months to five years. Depending on how the pemmican was prepared and when the buffalo was harvested.

                              So, for a week after the successful hunt, they and their dogs would be eating from the carcass in that first week. Eating the fresh meat, eating the marrow from the bones, which was both a rich source of calcium and minerals as well as fat. Then they’d pack up and leave with maybe 150 pounds of pemmican. And a human could live on one pound of pemmican per day, as a sustenance food

                              Basically what they could do, if they killed one buffalo per month, a band of 15 people to 30 people could live on that, carrying the stored food and eating the stored food as they traveled. And if they were very successful and killed 10 buffalo in one month, they would be burdened with 1,000 pounds of food. But that thousand pounds of high energy food could then be used to feed them for a hundred days.


                              http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2010/...ic-in-2-weeks/

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