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Carbohydrate is good for diabetes

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  • #91
    Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    Blood sugar and muscles are completely different. One is body tissue the other is energy, one uses the other.
    I was looking at comparisons between injured body tissue and injured body tissue.

    Looking at blood sugar is like saying: flood heights went to 10 meters then fell to 7m then levelled off at 5m. Flood heights tell us we have a problem, (which we can usually tell anyway from water being effin everywhere). What we want to find out is what broke to cause the flood (did a dam burst, levee bank fail) and how do we fix it.

    Same goes for diabetes, BS tells us we got a problem, it doesn't tell us what it is and how we fix it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
    The problem with your "don't worry about blood sugars cause it a downstream effect" is that that downstream effect has absolutely catastrophic consequences to almost every measurable aspect of health.

    Sometimes treating a symptom is a necessary part of treating the cause.

    Since you like muscle analogy.... this may be comparable to the RICE portion of initial acute injury treatment. But not really, as you will heal with or without RICE....with persistent high BS (too high too long) you produce sometimes irreparable damage.

    Ahh, or your flood analogy. Just fixing the dam won't clean up all that water that will continue to rot and do damage to your buildings and infostructure. Hey that works a bit better anyhow
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 06-18-2013, 10:56 AM.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by CarbDodger View Post
      this is where beta cell transplants may well come in. Obviously,though, if the person doesn't achieve and maintain a 'normal' profile after transplantation they'll die too
      And when your terrible lifestyle just destroys the transplant cells, then what? You're taking histamine blockers instead of removing the trigger and causes overproduction. Big picture - you need a diet that maximizes metabolic efficiency.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
        And when your terrible lifestyle just destroys the transplant cells, then what? You're taking histamine blockers instead of removing the trigger and causes overproduction. Big picture - you need a diet that maximizes metabolic efficiency.
        Originally posted by CarbDodger View Post
        ....Obviously,though, if the person doesn't achieve and maintain a 'normal' profile after transplantation they'll die too
        maybe diabetic retinopathy made you miss the 2nd sentence mate
        When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
        27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
        new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

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        • #94
          Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
          I don't think injured organs always have the same ability to regenerate that muscle tissue has. If you have no beta cells you aren't going to suddenly grow them in the presence of slightly elevated blood sugar. If it was that easy, diabetes would be curable rather than simply treatable.
          If I where to describe type 1 diabetes with the leg muscle analogy it would be this; having type 1 is like getting the leg chopped off, there isn't much repairing one can do to restore function. This to me is what you are describing.

          Type 2 OTOH is a lifestyle disease, change the lifestyle and you heal the disease (very treatable). I've heard of many full recoveries from type 2, nil full recoveries from type 1.


          Sent from my iPhone using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
          A little primal gem - My Success Story
          Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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          • #95
            Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
            If I where to describe type 1 diabetes with the leg muscle analogy it would be this; having type 1 is like getting the leg chopped off, there isn't much repairing one can do to restore function. This to me is what you are describing.

            Type 2 OTOH is a lifestyle disease, change the lifestyle and you heal the disease (very treatable). I've heard of many full recoveries from type 2, nil full recoveries from type 1.


            Sent from my iPhone using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
            I think type II is a spectrum though. Some can reverse it and others are too far gone. Also, there is a type 1.5. A friend of mine has that. Skinny as a rail, always ate a healthy Mediterranean diet, bicycle commuter for decades, hiker, backpacker, always out doing construction in his yard. Said his diabetes was caused by the pancreas slowly ceasing to function.
            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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            • #96
              Choco--I haven't seen a single case of real reversal with what you are proposing. Would be incredible if true but I just don't buy into it based on personal experience and tons of research of others dealing with T2.
              Last edited by joe2.0; 06-18-2013, 08:20 PM.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by WeldingHank View Post
                Having been to both sides of type II diabetes (and back.) I can confirm a lot of chocotaco's info. I started LCHF, taking Krav maga (very intense, explosive exercise) and lost a ton of weight at first (150ish-lbs). Went from fasting BGs of 130 to 85. Great, but I wanted to get better, stronger and faster at Krav, so I reluctantly started having more carbohydrate, 75g then up to 175g (potatoes, and sweet plantains) and damn did I get stronger and faster. Then, I went and saw my doctor and to my surprise, fasting BG now 79! I personally think that activity levels have something to do with it, even more so than actual carb count. Oh, I still lost weight, but way more pant sizes/shirt sizes in 50lbs than the first 150g.
                What was your A1C?

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                  I think type II is a spectrum though. Some can reverse it and others are too far gone. Also, there is a type 1.5. A friend of mine has that. Skinny as a rail, always ate a healthy Mediterranean diet, bicycle commuter for decades, hiker, backpacker, always out doing construction in his yard. Said his diabetes was caused by the pancreas slowly ceasing to function.
                  your friend has a faulty gene- type 1.5s aren't common but all are genetic. this guy is fascinating BBC News - Gene mutation means paracyclist has no fat under skin
                  I'm untyped- pancreatic diabetes-(and there aren't many of us) born with a malformation of the tubes from the liver and pancreas and dysfunction of the sphincter that allows exit of the fluids; this has periodic paralysis so doesn't release and the fluid builds up and my pancreas then gets bathed in digestive enzymes. I had the first episode around 8yrs . looking back over the years i generally managed it by IF. it wasn't till I had the operation to insert an overflow tube which went badly wrong and did a lot of damage that I ever followed a 'diabetic' diet and every year of that compounded the damage until i ended up in this shameful position
                  When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
                  27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
                  new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by joe2.0 View Post
                    Choco--I haven't seen a single case of real reversal with what you are proposing. Would be incredible if true but I just don't buy into it based on personal experience and tons of research of others dealing with T2.
                    I'd argue that my grandfather reversed it. He never took any medication for it and yet was able to maintain healthy blood sugar levels through diet and exercise alone.

                    you can reverse pre-diabetes. My dad did that.

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                    • Originally posted by CarbDodger View Post
                      your friend has a faulty gene- type 1.5s aren't common but all are genetic. this guy is fascinating BBC News - Gene mutation means paracyclist has no fat under skin
                      I'm untyped- pancreatic diabetes-(and there aren't many of us) born with a malformation of the tubes from the liver and pancreas and dysfunction of the sphincter that allows exit of the fluids; this has periodic paralysis so doesn't release and the fluid builds up and my pancreas then gets bathed in digestive enzymes. I had the first episode around 8yrs . looking back over the years i generally managed it by IF. it wasn't till I had the operation to insert an overflow tube which went badly wrong and did a lot of damage that I ever followed a 'diabetic' diet and every year of that compounded the damage until i ended up in this shameful position
                      That is an outrage of a story. To be harmed by the official diet. You are an asset, a voice of clarity to the madness around here.
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                      • Originally posted by NDF View Post
                        I'd argue that my grandfather reversed it. He never took any medication for it and yet was able to maintain healthy blood sugar levels through diet and exercise alone.

                        you can reverse pre-diabetes. My dad did that.
                        I'd argue that he controlled it through diet and exercise as you said--not reversed it. It's a debate out there but to me, I can't get beyond that if you get off track, even briefly, from said diet and exercise then the blood sugar creeps up. I don't take medication either and have a 5.2 A1C but I know if I pop open a coke or even have an apple by blood sugar will go up. That's not a reversal, it's control.

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                        • joe2 do you read much of diabetes forum?

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                          • Originally posted by joe2.0 View Post
                            I'd argue that he controlled it through diet and exercise as you said--not reversed it. It's a debate out there but to me, I can't get beyond that if you get off track, even briefly, from said diet and exercise then the blood sugar creeps up. I don't take medication either and have a 5.2 A1C but I know if I pop open a coke or even have an apple by blood sugar will go up. That's not a reversal, it's control.
                            That's all low carbohydrate does - it avoids glucose as a measure of "control." You may never be able to "reverse" type 2 diabetes fully. If it took you 40 years to break your body down enough to develop it, there simply may not be enough time to heal, or your body may be old enough that it can't regenerate fully. Not everything is reversible 100%, but you may be able to improve it. And again, the only way you'll have hope is full nutrient repletion and some type of healthy carbohydrate cycling. Simply sticking to a low carbohydrate diet mimics the metabolism of a diabetic and furthers insulin resistance.

                            Like you said, someone with type 2 diabetes can get their A1c and fasting blood glucose to normal levels by avoiding carbohydrate for prolonged periods of time. This does nothing to fix the problem, it just manages it by avoiding the issue. The second you have a Coke, you'll have issues. It may be even worse since carbohydrate avoidance reduces insulin sensitivity even further. This is why it is absolutely laughable to diagnose type 2 diabetes on blood markers. You can have type 2 diabetes and totally normal markers!!!
                            Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-19-2013, 09:11 AM.
                            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                            • diagnosed A1C @ 9.8. My last A1C was 5.2.

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                              • Originally posted by WeldingHank View Post
                                diagnosed A1C @ 9.8. My last A1C was 5.2.
                                Nice improvement!

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