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Carbohydrate is good for diabetes

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  • #31
    A diabetic guy where I work is convinced that he can't eat cheese and takes it out of sandwiches before he eats the remainder. There's so much bad advice out there and rather than helping people manage their conditions they are being exacerbated by the government led ignorance. There need to be some large scale, controlled trials. NUSI may be the answer.
    Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
    www.primaljoy.co.uk

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    • #32
      Originally posted by sting View Post
      ChocoTaco369 any carby food spikes blood sugar a carb food on its or even just cucumbers say for example spike BS, a watermelon or grapes sends it through the roof, so the more times you increase BS the likely one is to get insulin sensitivity and diabetes over time.
      Why do you think this? I strongly doubt you have any evidence to support this at all and it is all hear-say. I don't believe carbohydrate has anything to do with diabetes, but it's rather a product of too much polyunsaturated fat, fat-soluble vitamin deficiencies and chemical additives destroying the body's ability to oxidize glucose properly.

      Originally posted by sting View Post
      Once someone is diabetic carbs are just a no no, as every time they are eaten the diabetics BS rises which causes fat deposits and weight gain
      That doesn't mean carbohydrate causes the disease. It means your primary oxidative mechanism has been damaged. If you're in a car accident and your kidneys are damaged, you won't be able to eat much protein. That doesn't mean that protein is bad for your kidneys. Your logic is backwards.

      Originally posted by sting View Post
      If you give a diabetic a really healthy meal like a a salad, cucumbers tomato onion for example she/he will get a BS spike and all they are eating is a fresh salad.
      So what?
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
        You're leaving out the fact that the body adapts to some stresses, and some stresses produce greater fitness of the body (including your metabolism).

        I would like to hear more about diabetes though. My uncle has it, and I would do anything to help heal him.
        Some small stresses can be good. Large stresses aren't. The body adapts to heavy gluten in the diet - that doesn't make it healthy. This isn't a small adaptation, like adapting to the toxins in broccoli. This is a massive difference.
        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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        • #34
          I think Robb wrote a nice little synopsis on how one becomes insulin resistant and how a low carb paleo approach is an excellent option for combating it:

          Paleo Diet, Inflammation and Metformin

          Comment


          • #35
            Low carbohydrate diets promote insulin resistance. They don't combat it. They simply avoid the issue. Type 2 Diabetes is an affliction that causes the oxidative machinery that metabolizes glucose to malfunction. Carbohydrate is the victim, not the cause, of Type 2 Diabetes. Because of this, avoiding it will do absolutely nothing to fix the issue. If you consume lots of gluten and it creates an autoimmune condition that makes you allergic to your dog, you're do the equivalent of getting rid of your dog.

            My fasting blood sugar is 75 consuming anywhere from 150-300g of carbohydrate a day. When I was consuming <80g a day, it was 86. Carbohydrate promotes insulin sensitivity, high fat diets and carbohydrate restriction promote insulin resistance. Diabetes, which is at heart a metabolic derangement from too much polyunsaturated fat, nutrient deficiencies and toxic chemicals in the diet, is better combated by removing those poisonous foods from your body. At some point if you want to regain insulin sensitivity, you're going to have to slowly cycle in carbohydrate. Or you can just avoid the issue altogether by eating low-carb and never really fix the problem.
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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            • #36
              look im gunna chime in with my opinion, i might get a ton of "science" come down on my head but i don't care:

              It is my belief that adult diabetes (type 2) is a chronic disease (its quite obvious actually).

              It is very similar to all the other chronic diseases, that arise from your body dealing with a significant stressor all day everyday for years (think chronic cardio)

              If your metabolism could talk to you it would say......
              "look I've had it up to here, dealing with all this glucose you keep shoving down your throat. I've been dealing with this everyday for 20 years, go and get stuffed, I'm not doing it anymore. Doctors have insulin shots, go and get it off them or something"

              obviously then what needs to happen is this system needs a rest so we go LC or VLC.

              A new problem then arises... because we had all our body energy handed to us down our gullets in the form of carbs for 20 years our bodies aren't very good at making its own glucose or apportioning its glucose for "brain use only" and utilizing some other form of energy for it muscles etc.

              because of this the "hungry brain" forces the body to bust the LC or VLC diet and you start throwing glucose down your gullet again, then your metabolism goes "oh no not this again, i told you to get stuffed, im not dealing with glucose anymore". you now find your self in a vicious cycle.

              the solution, yes still give your self a rest from eating lots of glucose, but focus on getting all your other metabolic tools into gear this might take a bit of work but is doable. how do we do it?

              Well leave calorie deficits and macro ratio's at the door, you want to get in and vary up your diet as much as you can, (this is why our aboriginals succeed in clearing diabetes in a month after going bush. One day they're eating berries, the next their eating wallaby, the next their eating yams), your metabolism gets a good workout and starts to come online fairly quickly. I'm sure it even wouldn't mind dealing with a glucose load a few times a week, If it didn't have to deal with it every day, its not the stress of glucose it wants to avoid, its the chronic (everyday) stress it can't handle, it needs a rest to recover (just like chronic cardio). Just keep in mind that your glucose making system will become chronically stressed too if forced to do it's task all day every day (by going VLC). hope that helps

              edit: Its not carbs that are bad. Its doing the same thing constantly thats bad, eating constant too much carbs = bad, eating constant too little carbs = bad. <<<<<this is what causes chronic diseases.
              Last edited by dilberryhoundog; 06-16-2013, 08:14 PM. Reason: clarification
              A little primal gem - My Success Story
              Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

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              • #37
                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                Low carbohydrate diets promote insulin resistance. They don't combat it. They simply avoid the issue. Type 2 Diabetes is an affliction that causes the oxidative machinery that metabolizes glucose to malfunction. Carbohydrate is the victim, not the cause, of Type 2 Diabetes. Because of this, avoiding it will do absolutely nothing to fix the issue. If you consume lots of gluten and it creates an autoimmune condition that makes you allergic to your dog, you're do the equivalent of getting rid of your dog.

                My fasting blood sugar is 75 consuming anywhere from 150-300g of carbohydrate a day. When I was consuming <80g a day, it was 86. Carbohydrate promotes insulin sensitivity, high fat diets and carbohydrate restriction promote insulin resistance. Diabetes, which is at heart a metabolic derangement from too much polyunsaturated fat, nutrient deficiencies and toxic chemicals in the diet, is better combated by removing those poisonous foods from your body. At some point if you want to regain insulin sensitivity, you're going to have to slowly cycle in carbohydrate. Or you can just avoid the issue altogether by eating low-carb and never really fix the problem.
                Well if you say it that must make it true. Nope actually it don't. I've seen it. I've read about it. I've personally read the blood tests. You can tell me the sky is purple and the grass is pink all day but it won't change reality. Low carb paleo addresses and improves the root cause of insulin resistance in most people.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                  Well if you say it that must make it true. Nope actually it don't. I've seen it. I've read about it. I've personally read the blood tests. You can tell me the sky is purple and the grass is pink all day but it won't change reality. Low carb paleo addresses and improves the root cause of insulin resistance in most people.
                  "Paleo" may improve insulin sensitivity in general because it tends to avoid a lot of the very unhealthy foods that lead to metabolic derangement - seed oils, artificial sweeteners, high lectin grains and legumes, etc - but it has absolutely nothing to do with "low carb." Low carb in general impairs insulin sensitivity, not improves it. The human metabolism prefers glucose as a fuel source, but somewhere along the line in the paleo movement that whole thing got lost and you wind up with dilberryhoundog's post above. Insulin shots? Seriously? The most toxic thing we consume regularly is fat. Most of these issues are caused by seed oils, not carbohydrate. Carbohydrate metabolism is the victim of toxic fats.

                  Most traditional societies are high carb. Humanity began and evolved in areas where fruits and starches were common and fatty animals were rare. There aren't many fatty animals along the Equator. It's almost all lean game meats. What is everywhere? Fruits, roots and tubers. This is what human beings evolved eating. We didn't eat salad. Could you imagine a race of people traversing the landscape, burning hundreds of calories, to bring back 52 calories worth of leaves and a head of broccoli?

                  I don't understand the twisted logic. It makes absolutely no sense. Especially since the American diet is almost as high in fat as it is in carbs. Yea, all those rice eating Asians and traditional African societies getting 80% of their dietary calories from carbs are dying from T2D, right? Nah, that's just Americans. Doritos, doughnuts and McDonalds all contain far more fat than carbs. Somehow, we forget that as a community because we're more caught up in platitudes than actual facts.
                  Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-16-2013, 09:11 PM.
                  Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                    edit: Its not carbs that are bad. Its doing the same thing constantly thats bad, eating constant too much carbs = bad, eating constant too little carbs = bad. <<<<<this is what causes chronic diseases.
                    Nah. Constant consumption of carbs is only bad when they're deep-fried in rancid seed oils.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                      I think Robb wrote a nice little synopsis on how one becomes insulin resistant and how a low carb paleo approach is an excellent option for combating it:

                      Paleo Diet, Inflammation and Metformin
                      Pretty sure even Robb Wolf doesnt believe that anymore.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        I knew carbs were quite harmful in diabetes as they contain the excessive sugar content which might lead to deterioration of the situation.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                          Low carb in general impairs insulin sensitivity, not improves it. The human metabolism prefers glucose as a fuel source
                          ChocoTaco369 firstly I'm no expert so just commenting what i have read online, but there is many suggesting its the other way around.

                          Dr. Cate said: A minority of cell types actually do require glucose, specifically a few types of cells in the liver and cells without mitochondria (e.g., red blood cells). All other cells work perfectly well burning fat and special kinds of fat-breakdown molecules called ketone bodies. According to world-renowned metabolism expert Dr. Mary Vernon, we need 30 gm (2 Tbsp) of glucose per day to keep those cells that prefer glucose running properly. That small amount can readily be supplied by the conversion of protein to glucose in a metabolic process carried out through a cooperation between the liver and kidney, called gluconeogenesis. Your body requires ZERO grams of dietary carb. What little glucose your body requires (30gm) you can generate yourself from an ounce of protein.


                          Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 Most traditional societies are high carb. Humanity began and evolved in areas where fruits and starches were common and fatty animals were rare.
                          And yes Humans did eat starches and fruits but how much and not processed like now, different now most eat carbs everyday. Fruits were only available IN SEASON while fatty animals all year round, so they wern't eating fruits and starches every day like we are now.

                          Dr. Steve Phinney: Man was eating fish, quail, buffalo. We assume that he ate a lot of protein. In actuality, it appears that what the native people did is to time their hunts, and select the animals they hunted for very high levels of body fat. If you killed a buffalo in the fall or early winter, you killed an animal with a lot of body fat. By the way, they generally hunted in small groups. You might have 15-30 people in a hunting party. An adult cow would weigh around 1,000 pounds. A bull would weigh between 2,000 and 2,500 pounds. Now, suppose it’s, say, October? And the daytime temperatures are way above freezing? What do you do with 1,500 pounds of buffalo, and there are only 15 of you?

                          Once they killed the buffalo they would pitch their tent and go to work on the carcass. They would skin the carcass and they would work with the skin. They would cut the meat and dry most of it, and they would cut away and save the fat. Within 2 or three days they would have pretty much dealt with the whole carcass. They would take the fat and cook it into liquid fat. They would sew sacks out of part of the hide with the hair on the outside and the rawhide skin on the inside, and they would stuff pounded dried meat into the sacks, and then they would take hot buffalo fat and pour it in to fill in all the air spaces around the meat. Pouring it in hot and then sewing the sack closed with no air killed any bacteria, so when it was cooled, you’d have a solid block of sterilized meat and fat. And that was called pemmican.

                          Pemmican once it was produced in that way could be transported and stored anywhere from six months to five years. Depending on how the pemmican was prepared and when the buffalo was harvested.

                          So, for a week after the successful hunt, they and their dogs would be eating from the carcass in that first week. Eating the fresh meat, eating the marrow from the bones, which was both a rich source of calcium and minerals as well as fat. Then they’d pack up and leave with maybe 150 pounds of pemmican. And a human could live on one pound of pemmican per day, as a sustenance food

                          Basically what they could do, if they killed one buffalo per month, a band of 15 people to 30 people could live on that, carrying the stored food and eating the stored food as they traveled. And if they were very successful and killed 10 buffalo in one month, they would be burdened with 1,000 pounds of food. But that thousand pounds of high energy food could then be used to feed them for a hundred days.


                          http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2010/...ic-in-2-weeks/

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            Nah. Constant consumption of carbs is only bad when they're deep-fried in rancid seed oils.
                            Destructive Stressors = Cause destruction to your body, in dietary form they usually come as toxins, Generally your body needs to repair their damage (you seem to know alot about these)

                            Chronic Stressors = Stressors that your body would normally handle, except that the stressor hits too often, these usually arise from the body not getting enough rest between stressor events. In dietary form they usually come as eating the same stuff, all day, every day. (you don't seem to know much about these, except for when they might come in the physical/muscular domain)
                            Last edited by dilberryhoundog; 06-17-2013, 01:09 AM.
                            A little primal gem - My Success Story
                            Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Some of you might have seen the diagram below before. I'm well acquainted with it and ate like this from 2008 -2012, really strictly in 2012 with my diet consisting of 70% grains, plus vegetables and fruit, everything low fat, almost vegetarian, no red meat.

                              I had to start using medication as my beta cells couldn't cope, then insulin, then off insulin ,then on an insulin then off the pump.
                              Prior to to 2008 I was never fat always under my BMI but from 2008 I gained slowly-less than 1/2lb a week but consistently. constantly being told the weight gain was OK-less important than blood sugar control so I stuck with it until i became 100lb overweight. All this time I felt like crap but was desperate to be healthy.

                              Christmas day i found myself looking at my dinner, healthy, white turkey meat, vegetables, fat free potatoes and my husbands dinner consisting of loads of turkey meat and skin, loads of sausage wrapped in bacon, butter oozing on the few potatoes and veg. It was a WTF moment - he has a nigh perfect body maybe a wee bit thin on the legs and I am this 240+ blob yet I'm the one eating healthy and staying under my calorie limit.

                              A normal person can lose weight on any diet but i find it hard to believe anyone can find a high carb diet healthy in the long term.
                              Your pancreas is constantly working to balance these, even in the thin, and this is where beta cell burnout comes in. I look at some of the high carb proponents and believe eventually they'll regret this, I hope they wont and will get lucky, but not all of them will.
                              When you look at peak stats of type 2 diagnosis you get a spike at 40 and then the incidence stays high - paying for a lifetime of damage. Gorbag for example doesn't talk much about his fasting BG of 6.5 and thinks its OK as it comes down later but he chooses to look after his body his own way.

                              The low carb suits both my blood sugar (fasting now 5.2; postprandial 6.4 on metformin only) and my metabolism (65lb weight loss) and is hopefully stunting my cancer (next microscopial exam mid July).
                              I know my health is better- for a start I feel it, also my blood panel is excellent, consistently. My peak flow is vastly improved as is nerve conductivity. My blood pressure is normal on no medication now. HDL LDL TRIGS etc in perfect balance according both to griff and what the Dr wants to see. I no longer take a statin
                              I have no complaints and am on a perfect diet for Me
                              Last edited by CarbDodger; 06-17-2013, 01:31 AM.
                              When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
                              27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
                              new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by CarbDodger View Post
                                Some of you might have seen the diagram below before. I'm well acquainted with it and ate like this from 2008 -2012, really strictly in 2012 with my diet consisting of 70% grains, plus vegetables and fruit, everything low fat, almost vegetarian, no red meat.

                                I had to start using medication as my beta cells couldn't cope, then insulin, then off insulin ,then on an insulin then off the pump.
                                Prior to to 2008 I was never fat always under my BMI but from 2008 I gained slowly-less than 1/2lb a week but consistently. constantly being told the weight gain was OK-less important than blood sugar control so I stuck with it until i became 100lb overweight. All this time I felt like crap but was desperate to be healthy.

                                Christmas day i found myself looking at my dinner, healthy, white turkey meat, vegetables, fat free potatoes and my husbands dinner consisting of loads of turkey meat and skin, loads of sausage wrapped in bacon, butter oozing on the few potatoes and veg. It was a WTF moment - he has a nigh perfect body maybe a wee bit thin on the legs and I am this 240+ blob yet I'm the one eating healthy and staying under my calorie limit.

                                A normal person can lose weight on any diet but i find it hard to believe anyone can find a high carb diet healthy in the long term.
                                Your pancreas is constantly working to balance these, even in the thin, and this is where beta cell burnout comes in. I look at some of the high carb proponents and believe eventually they'll regret this, I hope they wont and will get lucky, but not all of them will.
                                When you look at peak stats of type 2 diagnosis you get a spike at 40 and then the incidence stays high - paying for a lifetime of damage. Gorbag for example doesn't talk much about his fasting BG of 6.5 and thinks its OK as it comes down later but he chooses to look after his body his own way.

                                The low carb suits both my blood sugar (fasting now 5.2; postprandial 6.4 on metformin only) and my metabolism (65lb weight loss) and is hopefully stunting my cancer (next microscopial exam mid July).
                                I know my health is better- for a start I feel it, also my blood panel is excellent, consistently. My peak flow is vastly improved as is nerve conductivity. My blood pressure is normal on no medication now. HDL LDL TRIGS etc in perfect balance according both to griff and what the Dr wants to see. I no longer take a statin
                                I have no complaints and am on a perfect diet for Me
                                Thanks for the insight. Keep fighting.

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