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  • #16
    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Too much starch for my personal taste and I don't completely agree with the authors premise on how "necessary" it is.
    Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
    He had problems with very low carb due to under-eating protein and found some hypothoses that worked for him.
    Judging from his Q&A posts, I think his attitude is that a variety of carb + protein packages will work as long as the two add up to a sufficient amount. His issue with VLC is that much of the protein ends up as glucose anyway, and in practice most people would find a double meat portion less interesting to eat and much more expensive than 1 meat + 1 starch unless they have a medical need to keep BG as flat as possible.
    37//6'3"/185

    My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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    • #17
      Originally posted by picklepete View Post
      Judging from his Q&A posts, I think his attitude is that a variety of carb + protein packages will work as long as the two add up to a sufficient amount. His issue with VLC is that much of the protein ends up as glucose anyway, and in practice most people would find a double meat portion less interesting to eat and much more expensive than 1 meat + 1 starch unless they have a medical need to keep BG as flat as possible.
      Huh? Give me double steak any day!

      Anyway, when you are truly keto-adapted, your body gets more efficient and also turns glycerol into the glucose needed, so less protein is required for GNG.
      Last edited by Dragonfly; 06-15-2013, 07:07 AM.
      Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
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      • #18
        Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
        Huh? Give me double steak any day!
        Dig in!
        Alas those of us in wage slavery appreciate our 25-cent taters.
        37//6'3"/185

        My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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        • #19
          I love the apple diagram. Especially the pleasure foods .
          Annie Ups the Ante
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread117711.html

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          • #20
            I saw this book in a book store and noticed the foreword by Mark Sisson.

            Higher carb than standard prima/paleo it seems and a small amount of white rice is recommended on PHD but no other grains. I think the authors say the toxins are cooked out white white rice so they ok to consume ( I'll read up more on this).

            They seem to base it on paleo - their modified version I guess.

            I read the first twenty pages on my mobile device at:
            http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/114...800#fullscreen

            Looks interesting.

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            • #21
              I haven't read the book, but have listened to a couple of podcasts and looked around the site a little.

              Unless I'm missing something, apart from avoiding vlc doesn't seem all that different from primal. Their general recommendation is to eat in tyre 100g to 150g of carbs from safe starches per day.

              Looking at the carbs contains in a lb of the starch sources he suggests, it varies from a little under 90g to a little over 150g.
              Last edited by Misabi; 06-25-2013, 12:42 PM.
              If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

              Originally posted by tfarny
              If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Ron_Swanson View Post
                Yes, the PHD is a great alternative diet to the Primal Lifestyle. Increasing of carbs isn't always a bad thing if they are "safe" carbs. Remember if you are suffering from adrenal fatigue, a keto based diet might not be the best thing to your adrenals heal. I would say that the PHD is a adrenal fatigue friendly paleo diet that people can use until they heal then they can switch to a cyclic ketogenic diet to lose weight.
                I suppose you're right cause I'm an ectomorph. And you know that ectomorph are often under adrenal stress (maybe they are ectomorph by that, qho can know?), in fact I found that:

                Hormonal problems in CFS - a clinical picture - the ectomorph - DoctorMyhill

                Ectomorphs often have Cronic fatigue syndrome.

                On Jaminet's website there is a item about the fact that somem people who eats very high carb in their meal can see their Thyroid hormones rise up and this cause that their meatbolism increases. If you see the site you can read that ectomorphs ususally have a very high metabolism and ususally they have adrenals stress.

                Now I've experimented a diet where I eat a day white rice and a day I only eat a few fruits until dinner what a very large amount of fats.

                I used eat before whatever I want to start the diet lot of junk food to feel worse and see the affects of the diet. Well the second day when I begin the semi-fast with fruit I have a terrible adrenal symptoms. I'm tired, I'm nervous I have tummyache and headache and I feel very weak. The thrid day I eat rice or tomatoes the four day I have another fasting day. This time symptoms are less terrible than the second day. But I the sixth day I can fast easly with no problem.

                I suppose that ectomorphs need to use safe starches cause in this time they can't rest so much to recover as in the paleolitical age. In the pas people like me can rest for a long time, there weren't TV, internet, night-club, but today to be social one is compelled to be awake even very late in the night and the modern life-style inclused the stressed jobs needs more carboydrate otherwise the adrenal glands are destroyed.

                A thing is curious. I have four uncle by my mother side. well otwo are dead for cancer at bowel, the only ones that were very slim like (to be slim is sign of adrenal fatigue), the other ones that are a bit fat are ok even if they have some problems with their health.

                Anyway what do you thin?, I suppose are too much a pound of starches every day and you?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Misabi View Post
                  I haven't read the book, but have listened to a couple of podcasts and looked around the site a little.

                  Unless I'm missing something, apart from avoiding vlc doesn't seem all that different from primal. Their general recommendation is to eat in tyre 100g to 150g of carbs from safe starches per day.

                  Looking at the carbs contains in a lb of the starch sources he suggests, it varies from a little under 90g to a little over 150g.
                  I read the book, I have it here with me and even if my english isn't very good I'm sure he recommends to eat a pound ( more or less 450 gramms) each day of safe starches.

                  As I said i think it's too much, and you what do you think about?

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by salvio View Post
                    I read the book, I have it here with me and even if my english isn't very good I'm sure he recommends to eat a pound ( more or less 450 gramms) each day of safe starches.

                    As I said i think it's too much, and you what do you think about?
                    I think J Stanton's review of it was very good. The way he put it is the PHD is a good sensible starting place, then adjust it to fit your needs. Don't take it as gospel.

                    Book Review: Perfect Health Diet (Scribner Edition, December 2012) - GNOLLS.ORG
                    Last edited by Paleobird; 08-10-2013, 03:27 PM.

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                    • #25
                      PHD has some excellent citations. They have a pretty convincing tier of arguments for their recomendations of approximately 60f/20c/20p sort of diet (I could be off by 5% on that since I'm going by memory).

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                      • #26
                        Actually recommends double the carbs to protein....from his site:

                        By weight, the diet works out to about 3/4 plant foods, 1/4 animal foods. By calories, it works out to about 600 carb calories, primarily from starches; around 300 protein calories; and fats supply a majority (50-60%) of daily calories.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rory535 View Post
                          Actually recommends double the carbs to protein....from his site:
                          Ahh, yes you are correct. One of the points of their diet I kinda disagree with was how low it is in protein. Now that you say that, there is the difference ... it was 15% protein. I think that it should be a bit higher at maintenance and quite a bit higher at caloric deficiency. That is one part of their book which could have been improved IMO. They tended to relate many recommendations in percentages... sometimes they gave gram units... The percentage bit is great from the standpoint that you could take that and utilize it across various body weights, but there were not enough specific qauntifiers for grams per lb and such. Like in the PB its laid out as 5-1.0 g of protein/lbs of lean body mass (again going by memory so don't hit me if i'm off by just a tad)... this is an excellent way to present recommendations. % of your caloric load is so variable that its almost useless and the % that "I" would recommend would absolutely change based on what your goal and caloric load actually are.... that said I think most of their recs are from a "maintenance" standpoint.

                          Also, I have the original version so maybe the updated one is different.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                            Ahh, yes you are correct. One of the points of their diet I kinda disagree with was how low it is in protein. Now that you say that, there is the difference ... it was 15% protein. I think that it should be a bit higher at maintenance and quite a bit higher at caloric deficiency. That is one part of their book which could have been improved IMO.
                            I've puzzled over this and generally agree with you. When I look at my menu the protein averages about 22% of intake but on a heavy activity day that'll be a lower % of expenditure. Their bottom line on protein is that most people get the right amount and we can generally trust our instincts when presented with a plate of meat.

                            IIRC the rationale is that their sample of centenarians eats around 12% protein. The safe range is 10~30% and each end has upsides and downsides. The theory is that high protein promotes growth and reproduction at the cost of longevity.
                            37//6'3"/185

                            My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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                            • #29
                              I read the first PHD and the revised newer version. Both were written very well and had a lot of studies/citations that backed their points. I personally like the fact that they advise a higher carbohydrate ratio especially for those with adrenal fatigue or who exercise a lot. Like others have said Paul Jaminet is also against PUFA which I completely agree with. My main issue with the book is the title.
                              "If man made it, don't eat it" - Jack Lallane

                              People say I am on a "crazy" diet. What is so crazy about eating veggies, fruits, seafood and organ meats? Just because I don't eat whole wheat and processed food doesn't make my diet "crazy". Maybe everyone else with a SAD are the "crazy" ones for putting that junk in their system.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Balance View Post
                                I read the first PHD and the revised newer version. Both were written very well and had a lot of studies/citations that backed their points. I personally like the fact that they advise a higher carbohydrate ratio especially for those with adrenal fatigue or who exercise a lot. Like others have said Paul Jaminet is also against PUFA which I completely agree with. My main issue with the book is the title.
                                To be accurate, he's against omega 6: Omega-3 and Omega-6 Fats Archives - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet
                                Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                                Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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