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MCTs cannot make you fat!?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by richard View Post
    but that doesn't work if you are leptin resistant, insulin resistant, suffering imbalances and not perceiving signs of what your body needs correctly.
    True. There are always going to be extreme circumstances but I was aiming my comment at Joe average, too many people get fixated on certain dietary practices just based on what they read rather than through their own trial and error.

    This also carries through to working out, I'll sometimes have an out of shape guy tell me I shouldn't be doing a certain thing in the gym because they read it in such and such magazine, to these guys I say get your heads out of the fricken magazines and actually do this $hit, only when you get the results you seek will you know what actually works.
    Last edited by OldSchhool; 06-14-2013, 01:01 PM.

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    • #17
      ChocoTaco

      I just read this answered question by Lyle McDonald which he very underestimates protein turning into fat, he clearly seems wrong here?
      Excess Protein and Fat Storage Ė Q&A


      Question: I have done a lot of study in diets and nutrition but to this day I have not been able to get any concrete evidence on what happens with excess protein in the body and Iím hoping you can help.
      To make things simple, lets take a theoretical diet consisting of 5000 calories of pure protein for a 60kg, 175cm female.
      Many people claim that excess protein will get wasted while others say that all excess calories eventually end up being stored as fat.
      I have done my own research on the breakdown of protein into amino acids and I understood it as: some of the amino acids are wasted while others will go through the cycle of conversion and will still be used by the body for energy.
      Answer: Ok, first things first. The example given above is absurdly non-physiological. The satiating power of protein would make such a high protein consumption impossible. That is, 5000 calories of pure protein is 1250 grams of pure protein. Canít be done. Beyond that, while the biochemical pathways for the conversion of protein to fat do exist in humans, the likelihood of it ever happening in any but the most absurdly non-physiological circumstances are effectively nil.
      Let me put this in perspective. Despite a lot of claims to the contrary, the actual conversion of carbohydrate to fat in humans under normal dietary conditions is small approaching insignificant (a topic I discussed at least briefly in Nutrient Intake, Nutrient Storage and Nutrient Oxidation).
      Make no mistake, the conversion of carbs to fat (a process called de-novo lipogenesis or DNL) can happen but the requirements for it to happen significantly are fairly rare in humans under most conditions (to discuss this in detail would require a full article, interested readers can search Medline for work by Hellerstein or Acheson on the topic).
      At least one of those is when daily carbohydrate intake is just massive, fulfilling over 100% of the daily maintenance energy requirements. And only then when muscle glycogen is full. For an average sized male youíre looking at 700-900 grams of carbohydrate daily for multiple days running.
      Which means that the odds of protein being converted to fat in any quantitatively meaningful fashion is simply not going to happen. Certain amino acids are processed to a great degree in the liver (as I discuss in The Protein Book) and this can produce glucose, ketones and a few other things. But triglycerides (the storage form of Ďfatí) isnít one of them.
      I imagine that if protein were going to be converted to fat, it would first have to be converted to glucose and only if the amount produced were then in excess of daily maintenance requirements would there be conversion to fat. But as noted above, this simply isnít going to happen under any even reasonably normal circumstances. No human could eat enough protein on a daily basis for it to occur.
      What will happen, as discussed in Nutrient Intake, Nutrient Storage and Nutrient Oxidation. is that amino acid oxidation (burning for energy) will go up somewhat although, as discussed in that article, itís a slow process and isnít complete.
      So, as noted above, while the pathway exists for protein to be stored as fat, and folks will continue to claim that Ďexcess protein just turns to fatí, itís really just not going to happen under any sort of real-world situation. Certainly we can dream up odd theoretical situations where it might but those wonít apply to 99.9% of real-world situations.

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      • #18
        Choco i posted something which seems to be waiting approval, but after reading Lyle's comments here Hmm


        Carbs are rarely converted to fat and stored as such
        When you eat more carbs you burn more carbs and less fat; eat less carbs and you burn less carbs and more fat
        Protein is basically never going to be converted to fat and stored as such
        Nearly topped reading there, but will read rest just to see what he has to say.

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        • #19
          Wiki

          ACADM (acyl-Coenzyme A dehydrogenase, C-4 to C-12 straight chain) is a gene that provides instructions for making an enzyme called acyl-coenzyme A dehydrogenase that is important for breaking down (degrading) a certain group of fats called medium-chain fatty acids. These fatty acids are found in foods such as milk and certain oils, and they are also stored in the body's fat tissue. Medium-chain fatty acids are also produced when larger fatty acids are degraded. The acyl-coenzyme A dehydrogenase for medium-chain fatty acids (ACADM) enzyme is essential for converting these particular fatty acids to energy, especially during periods without food (fasting)

          This from another source

          Some interesting new research just published in Genes and Nutrition revealed that there may be adverse effects of MCTs based on where you store your body fat.

          It's well known that based on your gender, genetics and various hormonal and environmental factors, you may store fat either in the abdominal region and upper body or on the hips and lower body (the apple or pear shapes, respectively). It's also well known that upper body obesity is correlated with greater metabolic risks.

          In this new randomized, double-blind trial, Dutch researchers found that an MCT-based diet increased inflammation and decreased energy metabolism in adipose tissue in a group of subjects with upper body obesity. Why would MCTs have a negative effect on people with upper body obesity? The theory is that since upper body obesity is associated with non alcoholic fatty liver disease, the transport of MCT straight to the hepatic tissues may be an extra fatty acid burden to the liver.

          Two last health caveats. Those with blood sugar regulation issues should know that MCTs have been shown to raise insulin. This, by the way, may also explain why fat loss results have been inconsistent in the research. And finally, MCTs are ketogenic. As such, they should not be given to diabetics except under a physician's direct supervision.

          Hmm
          Last edited by sting; 06-14-2013, 07:57 PM.

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          • #20
            ChocoTaco369 Those links you gave basically just mention them as Empty Calories nothing to do with your previous reply?

            Wiki Medium-chain triglyceride - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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            • #21
              Choco can you explain a bit more on coconut oil (medium chain fatty acids) those links you posted only mention them as Empty calories compared to your first post.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by sting View Post
                Choco can you explain a bit more on coconut oil (medium chain fatty acids) those links you posted only mention them as Empty calories compared to your first post.
                I'm not sure what do you mean. Coconut oil is only around 60-65% MCT's. The rest are LCT's - mostly palmitic and stearic acid SFA's with some MUFA (in this case oleic acid) and very little PUFA (linoleic acid). You can't naturally eat just MCT's.
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                • #23
                  In your first post ITT you said twice "but do you know what else does that, too?" can you elaborate a bit on these?

                  Every respected blog, well you know what i mean, i have read say the opposite to what your saying, just wondering if you can explain your points?

                  not saying your wrong just that i'm newbie

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                  • #24
                    I like MCTs when "fasting". I'll have a teaspoon or two with my coffee, along with some half&half. I "feel" like it reduces my hunger and keeps me alert if I have 2 coffees like this during the day. (probably 100 calories of mostly fat per cup.) Now, this "feeling" could be 100% placebo, but I don't really care. It works and I'm never hungry, so that's enough for me.

                    Adding MCTs to a weight loss regiment without reducing calories in another area is just silly.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by sting View Post
                      In your first post ITT you said twice "but do you know what else does that, too?" can you elaborate a bit on these?

                      Every respected blog, well you know what i mean, i have read say the opposite to what your saying, just wondering if you can explain your points?
                      Your body burns things in "preference." You're always burning fat and glucose to a degree, but proportions vary wildly.
                      Alcohol takes preference since it is a toxin. If you consume alcohol, it goes straight to your liver and converts into a fuel source called acetates. These aren't very efficient. Try jogging after a few beers. I could run 3-4 miles right now very easily, but after a few beers I can't run 3-4 blocks without being able to catch my breath.

                      Your body burns glucose preferentially over dietary fat. It's important to note that carbs aren't inherently fattening unless you eat close to 0g of fat a day (<10% total calories from fat, which virtually no one does). When you eat carbohydrate and insulin levels increase, you dramatically increase the glucose-to-fat ratio that you burn. Essentially, you mostly burn sugar as fuel and the dietary fat you eat alongside the carbohydrate is stored. When you eat a cheeseburger, it's the burger fat and cheese fat being stored as fat, not the carbs in the bun. You'll burn them preferentially, until your insulin levels decline, in which case you slowly start burning more fat again.

                      MCT's are burnt preferentially over LCT's. They get immediate attention in your liver to be burnt as a fuel source, so for the time being the LCT's are put mostly on the "back burner" (i.e. stored) until you burn up the MCT's. This is what happens with sugar and alcohol. So yes, technically MCT's don't really make us fat...but using that same logic, neither does carbohydrate or alcohol, but rather the fat makes us fat. In reality, it's just an excess of calories making us fat, and there are no ways around this.
                      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                        Utter misinformation.

                        MCT's aren't used structurally like LCT's. When you consume MCT's, they go directly to the liver and are used as energy. Do you know what else does that?

                        Alcohol.

                        When you consume alcohol, fat metabolism is put on hold. You stop burning stored fats until the alcohol is gone, and any dietary fat you consume alongside that fat is stored as fat since it cannot be metabolized. This is what happens when you eat MCT's as well. Because they're not stored as fat, everything else you eat alongside it is. You stop burning fat, you store all the fats and carbs alongside it until the MCT's are burnt out of your system. They are the very definition of empty calories. Yes, they're advantageous in the sense that they boost your metabolic rate, but do you know what else does that, too?
                        What does it do?

                        What is the difference between consuming coconut oil, or swapping that amount with saturated fat or carbs/protein when consuming say a diet of 2500 calories a day.

                        I'm not sure just asking, wouldn't coconut oil be better than extra carbs or protein replacing coconut oil since coconut does not increase insulin which at the same time keeps you fuller and more satisfied?

                        Replacing the coconut oil amount with protein or carbs would only increase insulin, carbs also burn off quicker meaning your hungry in a few hours again.

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                        • #27
                          That is interesting the one study that showed obese men losing upper body fat. I presume the upper body fat is either the bad abdominal fat or the mooby hormonally whacked fat or both. There is probably something about MCT that helped their hormones. It's probably worthwhile for people to use coconut oil in place of other fats just for whatever beneficial properties it might confer.
                          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by sting View Post
                            What does it do?

                            What is the difference between consuming coconut oil, or swapping that amount with saturated fat or carbs/protein when consuming say a diet of 2500 calories a day.

                            I'm not sure just asking, wouldn't coconut oil be better than extra carbs or protein replacing coconut oil since coconut does not increase insulin which at the same time keeps you fuller and more satisfied?

                            Replacing the coconut oil amount with protein or carbs would only increase insulin, carbs also burn off quicker meaning your hungry in a few hours again.
                            No. Extra carbs and protein have potential to be stored as lean muscle mass. MCT's are just empty fuel. It'll just take you out of a fat burning state. Coconut oil is advantageous if you have thyroid issues, low body temperature and to displace PUFA, or provide quick energy if you're going on a long hike or something, but honestly eating coconut oil by the spoonful is like eating white sugar by the spoonful.
                            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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