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  • #31
    Originally posted by Leida View Post
    I can't offer an advice, just a hug. I am in exactly the same position, and I also have no idea what to do.
    Hugs back to you Leida. I'm sorry you're in the same position. It's annoying as hell! I presume you've had your hormones checked and all that good stuff? I know you're really informed about nutrition and lifting, but just wondering - have you ever tried sprinting every day? I mentioned this earlier, but a while back I sprinted every day for a week and my thighs melted away. Of course I was binging at the time so I didn't keep it off, but from what I remember it took me a while to regain the weight there, which leads me to think it wasn't just water I lost. I'm going to try doing it this week again to see if it makes any difference. Not in a self flagellating way though. I'm not really one for exercise anorexia.

    Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
    I'm just plodding along myself, letting go of the outcome, focusing on the numbers in my weight lifting log book rather than the numbers on my tape measure or scale. It has done wonders for my sanity and self-esteem but not a whole lot for getting into size 2s or anything like that.

    Meanwhile, I'm trying to just be really present and conscious of eating more than I really need or eating when I'm not really hungry. Can't say I have that mastered but I do notice that I am not very good in either of these two areas.

    At the very least I truly believe I'm well on my way to being an awesome old lady. Maybe when I truly look old I will dye my hair magenta and get some really awesome tattoos all down my arms so I look like a walking flower and bird garden. Fuck being skinny. I want to be awesome and unique.
    I've just started advanced body weight exercises, and I can relate to the satisfaction of getting closer to certain postures that were impossible before, and seeing reps increase But the best thing has to be noticing the stabilisation of energy and mood that are coming from eating normally.

    If you dye your hair magenta when you get old you won't be unique btw - go for gold

    Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
    The buzz cut is very nice on you.
    I agree - looks great!
    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by brookesam View Post
      YogaBare, I can relate to you on so many levels. I've gained 8lbs since going primal myself. Partly related to very low T3 levels.
      Welcome to the weight gain on primal club!!!

      YogaBare--I don't think you should sprint everyday. Sprinting, if you're doing it right (i.e., all-out sprints, I'm-going-to-die sprints), should only be done every other day, at most.

      But I was just going to suggest adding some cardio to your routine. So you could sprint every other day, and do other moderate intensity cardio on the days you don't sprint. Running is, of course, my favorite, but you could also do the elliptical or swim if you're into that kind of thing - heh. (I'm a horrible swimmer so it's more like flailing for me. )

      Zach will disagree with me because he thinks that cardio causes fat retention. But, in my experience, cardio (running to be specific) has always helped me lose. Before I broke my body last August, I could always lose by increasing my training volume without changing my diet at all. And, unless I'm consciously restricting, I ALWAYS eat like a pig.

      My journal

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
        You're a fan of calorie cycling too, right? I'd be more inclined to do this, but then I usually go overboard on restriction... and we know how that ends
        That's the nice thing about FMD. Though she doesnt believe in counting calories, I still track, cuz I just wanted to see. And it is definitely calorie cycling along with carb cycling (fat cycling too if you want to get technical ) It was just super easy to implement. It just incorporates all the things I love. Fruits, nut butters, steak, eggs, even veggies I love like sweet tators (that's a veggie, right?) I may not have it every day, but it is unlike when I go low carb or high protein or high fat or whatever where I can't have those things for extended periods of time, kwim? I know it is just around the corner.

        Anyways, it fits me fine for now. Hoping it takes me all the way to my goal, if not, I will try something else, but if it takes me to goal (whatever that is - not even sure I just know I am not there yet) this is something I could continue, or at least implement a week here and there if I feel like I need it.

        And I was feeling really good before, just going with the flow. I felt good. I felt healthy. I had plenty of energy. I just want to get the extra weight off, and rather than dilly-dally around with it waiting for it to fix itself, I just wanted to try to do whatever I could to help it along. Waiting is fine, but not for me at the moment. I have been giving this a serious effort since November of 2011 (about 15-20lbs before that making little changes) over a year of healing via primal (March 2012) but very slow weight loss to the tune of about 15lbs since March of 2012. No real weight loss in about a year, despite trying for most of that time until about the first of the year when I just went with the flow for a few months.

        So I am at the point where I just want to get there sooner than the next 5 years, kwim? So anyways, that's where I am at.
        Last edited by gopintos; 06-03-2013, 01:14 PM.
        65lbs gone and counting!!

        Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by diene View Post
          Welcome to the weight gain on primal club!!!

          YogaBare--I don't think you should sprint everyday. Sprinting, if you're doing it right (i.e., all-out sprints, I'm-going-to-die sprints), should only be done every other day, at most.

          But I was just going to suggest adding some cardio to your routine. So you could sprint every other day, and do other moderate intensity cardio on the days you don't sprint. Running is, of course, my favorite, but you could also do the elliptical or swim if you're into that kind of thing - heh. (I'm a horrible swimmer so it's more like flailing for me. )

          Zach will disagree with me because he thinks that cardio causes fat retention. But, in my experience, cardio (running to be specific) has always helped me lose. Before I broke my body last August, I could always lose by increasing my training volume without changing my diet at all. And, unless I'm consciously restricting, I ALWAYS eat like a pig.
          Thanks for the tip, but honestly - I hate cardio, and I'm terrible at it! It really exhausts me - I don't think I'm metabolically strong enough to handle it yet. I only mean to sprint every day til Thursday anyway, after which point I'll be in CALI and won't be able to.

          Originally posted by gopintos View Post
          That's the nice thing about FMD. Though she doesnt believe in counting calories, I still track, cuz I just wanted to see. And it is definitely calorie cycling along with carb cycling (fat cycling too if you want to get technical ) It was just super easy to implement. It just incorporates all the things I love. Fruits, nut butters, steak, eggs, even veggies I love like sweet tators (that's a veggie, right?) I may not have it every day, but it is unlike when I go low carb or high protein or high fat or whatever where I can't have those things for extended periods of time, kwim? I know it is just around the corner.

          Anyways, it fits me fine for now. Hoping it takes me all the way to my goal, if not, I will try something else, but if it takes me to goal (whatever that is - not even sure I just know I am not there yet) this is something I could continue, or at least implement a week here and there if I feel like I need it.

          And I was feeling really good before, just going with the flow. I felt good. I felt healthy. I had plenty of energy. I just want to get the extra weight off, and rather thing dilly-dally around with it waiting for it to fix itself, I just wanted to try to do whatever I could to help it along. Waiting is fine, but not for me at the moment. I have been giving this a serious effort since November of 2011 (about 15-20lbs before that making little changes) over a year of healing via primal (March 2012) but very slow weight loss to the tune of about 15lbs since March of 2012. No real weight loss in about a year, despite trying for most of that time until about the first of the year when I just went with the flow for a few months.

          So I am at the point where I just want to get there sooner than the next 5 years, kwim? So anyways, that's where I am at.
          Did you find that eating like this has helped other health issues you might have had? I know I've got digestive problems, but I have no idea what to do about it. At the moment my stomach is completely distended (i literally look three months pregnant) which is part of the reason I'm annoyed about my weight right now. Where are you, whoosh?
          "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

          In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

          - Ray Peat

          Comment


          • #35
            Cardio only worked for me up to my mid-30s. Now it doesn't do a damn thing.
            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by marcadav View Post
              I chose, instead, to give myself permission to stay obese if I got and stayed healthy.
              Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
              Fuck being skinny. I want to be awesome and unique.
              Thank you both. I'm coming to terms a little more each day with the former and, going forward, plan to live my life with the latter as my mantra.

              YB...4 months binge-free is a huge step. Heal yourself first and the rest will fall into place. Take a step back and see how far you've come already, and know that you have it in you to keep moving forward making positive changes.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by lemontwisst View Post
                Thank you both. I'm coming to terms a little more each day with the former and, going forward, plan to live my life with the latter as my mantra.

                YB...4 months binge-free is a huge step. Heal yourself first and the rest will fall into place. Take a step back and see how far you've come already, and know that you have it in you to keep moving forward making positive changes.
                Thanks Lemontwist I have to confess - I'm too worn out from dieting to really do anything else. I'm quite enjoying just eating what I want, and seeing myself getting stronger every day. I wish there was more happening weight-wise but if the only way I can get to where I want is by crash dieting then it's not worth it...

                Anyway, I've never done "normal" weight loss, so maybe this is a reasonable process.

                How's your health and weight these days? Did you get any conclusive results from your doc?
                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                - Ray Peat

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                  Did you find that eating like this has helped other health issues you might have had? I know I've got digestive problems, but I have no idea what to do about it. At the moment my stomach is completely distended (i literally look three months pregnant) which is part of the reason I'm annoyed about my weight right now. Where are you, whoosh?
                  I think I was otherwise healthy, but who knows. My cholesterol was on the rise since primal, so I will be curious next time I go back to the doctor. I had a thyroid test done, whatever one that they do, and it came back okay, but I am pretty sure I had screwed it up. I know my heels are not cracked anymore. The main thing I notice, is that I am losing weight again.

                  It is just weird. Same foods that I was eating before but now I eat certain ones on certain days, and now I am losing weight. Weird.

                  I hate cardio also. It just makes me even more hungry. She does want you to do one cardio on Mon OR Tuesday. (that is if you start on a Monday) I just push mow part of my yard, or Tabata on my elliptical - or nothing. She wants you to do ST on Wed OR Thursday. Again, I am just working around my yard or home, things that need done. Fri, Sat, Sun are the higher Fat days, which works out well for me and things like social functions on the weekend, and she wants you to do something more along the lines of a relaxation. Like spa or massage or something. I still do too much work around home, but throw in a steam shower or epsom salt bath.

                  I dislike cardio, but I have been doing a whole lot of yard work cuz it just needed done. I am not sure if it helped or hurt me. It is more like a cardio & ST combo. I also started water aerobics on Thursday and Sunday, which doesnt line up with what she wants, but that is when the class is and my sister asked me to go with her, and so far I am enjoying it. But it has only been 2 classes

                  I can tell things are changing. Inches and inches off waist, hips. Thighs and arms are reduced. Bust was reduced and I asked DH about that and he said the girls are the same size, so I guess the excess like on the backside & sides are reducing
                  65lbs gone and counting!!

                  Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Hugs back to you Leida. I'm sorry you're in the same position. It's annoying as hell! I presume you've had your hormones checked and all that good stuff? I know you're really informed about nutrition and lifting, but just wondering - have you ever tried sprinting every day? I mentioned this earlier, but a while back I sprinted every day for a week and my thighs melted away. Of course I was binging at the time so I didn't keep it off, but from what I remember it took me a while to regain the weight there, which leads me to think it wasn't just water I lost. I'm going to try doing it this week again to see if it makes any difference. Not in a self flagellating way though. I'm not really one for exercise anorexia.
                    Heya, I did not sprint every day, but I did 20 min HIIT 5 days a week (or attempted to). Unfortunately triggers hunger like nothing else, and I do not have enough stamina to keep it up. I would watch appetite seriously if you start sprinting as your daily workout & start with every other day. Playing basketball or soccer could be an interesting thing to try.
                    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I love this thread btw. I had started posting on MDA less and less, hanging around here less and less. Just couldnt understand what was wrong with me. Why did things work for everybody else but me?! I read & read, and the more I learned, the more I didnt know. The more I tried, the more things didnt work.

                      It was very discouraging. Ppl starting after me, losing more weight than me, etc.

                      Going with the flow for a few months at the first of the year & eating a few more calories, helped to get me in a better place mentally I guess, but I did gain a bit before I leveled off. And I know that if I never lose another pound, I am in a much better place today than I was a few years ago. I felt like a 90 year old woman on my last leg, rather than the 45ish that I was. And here I am today, I feel about half of my true age. I just know there is much more that I can do yet. Some of you ladies already look fabulous. I have more to lose than just a few stubborn vanity pounds. I think I am about half way to where I know I can be and at the rate of the Primal 15lbs per year, that will get me there in about 5 more years. I just think I can do better than that.

                      And if I can't, I can't. I am not stressing or driving myself bonkers over it, but I am mindful of what I am eating and when, and it seems to be making the difference. I will ride this train for as long as it lasts.
                      65lbs gone and counting!!

                      Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Ok you don't want to go low carb, but you're consuming too many starches and it may be stalling your weight loss. Remember, Primal recommends starches in moderation and for athletes.

                        These weekly "treats", what do they usually consist of? They may be adding a lot towards your carb or fat intake or your cals.

                        I think there are a lot of things preventing speedier or more efficient weight loss here. Why not low carb? Overall, Mark recommends a lower carbohydrate intake for optimal weight loss, and this is generally the base principle of every low/restricted carbohydrate plan.

                        You can add a few berries and replace some of your starch with more green veggies if you want to remain at your carbohydrate level. White rice is not healthy eaten regularly, it's still a grain.

                        And honestly from somebody with an ED and BED background I can understand where you're coming from. Primal has reduced my appetite and I haven't even thought about the idea of binging once, considering I was a fructose addict that binged on bananas, grapes and other sugary fruit to ironically replace my initial sugar addiction that made me overweight in the first place BUT of course conventional wisdom places no restriction on fruit because it concentrates on its high nutritious benefits (the same nutritious content that can easily be found in vegetables) and ignores the high fructose content, which can be equally as bad as consuming refined sugar.

                        If you really are comfortable with your current diet maybe try and reduce cals by 50-200 and you might some results?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
                          Thanks Lemontwist I have to confess - I'm too worn out from dieting to really do anything else. I'm quite enjoying just eating what I want, and seeing myself getting stronger every day. I wish there was more happening weight-wise but if the only way I can get to where I want is by crash dieting then it's not worth it...

                          Anyway, I've never done "normal" weight loss, so maybe this is a reasonable process.

                          How's your health and weight these days? Did you get any conclusive results from your doc?
                          It's like Paleomom said in the EAT thread...doing what we've been doing for years hasn't been working, so what harm is there in trying something else entirely? As frustrating as some days can be when I feel fat and floppy and gross in my own skin, i know I'm working toward being healthier, regardless of what the scale shouts back at me. The fact you can be happy about what and how you're eating and not analysing every morsel and feeling good doing the exercise you are is a big plus. Honestly, there aren't many of us that don't wish we could lose a few pounds (or a few dozen)...I'd rather be healthy and content than always trying to attain some magical number on the scale.

                          Nothing conclusive about anything yet. The thyroid labs all came back 'mid-range', so no cause for any concern from my GP (despite a jump in TSH from 1.95 to 3.33 from Dec 2012 to Apr 2013). There were a few weeks in early April where I nearly hit bottom...to the point where I was so braindead I couldn't deal with work and the house could have been burning down around me but I couldn't get my dead arse off the couch. I remembered BestBetter's recommend in the EAT thread about a Raw Thyroid supplement and I got some shipped. Within two days of taking it, my energy had come back (still low, but it always is), my mind is still getting less fuzzy each day. That said a lot to me.
                          The water retention is still an issue and I swelled up like a balloon going out of town the weekend before last...got home late last Tuesday night and my legs and feet are just today back to the size they were when I left. Which is still swollen enough that I have constant pitting edema.
                          I have an appointment booked with a naturopath for next Tuesday afternoon, she specializes in dealing with Wilson's Temp Syndrome. Still dealing with low body temps, despite following Matt Stone's protocol(s) for raising body temp. Outside of the swelling flareup, though, my weight has stabilized after the EAT experiment, so that's a bonus.
                          Sorry for the hijack
                          Last edited by lemontwisst; 06-03-2013, 01:12 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Why not low carb?
                            Can't speak for YB, but for me it is a life of a black, never-ending misery, lethargy and tears. Oh, and a weight gain, of course, after an initial loss of a couple of pounds. I know people for whom it works just can't believe that for others it do not, but yeah, LC is not a miracle that suits absolutely everyone and fixes absolutely everything.
                            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                              I think I was otherwise healthy, but who knows. My cholesterol was on the rise since primal, so I will be curious next time I go back to the doctor. I had a thyroid test done, whatever one that they do, and it came back okay, but I am pretty sure I had screwed it up. I know my heels are not cracked anymore. The main thing I notice, is that I am losing weight again.

                              It is just weird. Same foods that I was eating before but now I eat certain ones on certain days, and now I am losing weight. Weird.

                              I hate cardio also. It just makes me even more hungry.

                              I can tell things are changing. Inches and inches off waist, hips. Thighs and arms are reduced. Bust was reduced and I asked DH about that and he said the girls are the same size, so I guess the excess like on the backside & sides are reducing
                              Woah - definitely sold on this diet! Will order the book and read when I get back from hols.

                              Originally posted by gopintos View Post
                              I love this thread btw. I had started posting on MDA less and less, hanging around here less and less. Just couldnt understand what was wrong with me. Why did things work for everybody else but me?! I read & read, and the more I learned, the more I didnt know. The more I tried, the more things didnt work.

                              It was very discouraging. Ppl starting after me, losing more weight than me, etc.

                              Going with the flow for a few months at the first of the year & eating a few more calories, helped to get me in a better place mentally I guess, but I did gain a bit before I leveled off. And I know that if I never lose another pound, I am in a much better place today than I was a few years ago. I felt like a 90 year old woman on my last leg, rather than the 45ish that I was. And here I am today, I feel about half of my true age. I just know there is much more that I can do yet. Some of you ladies already look fabulous. I have more to lose than just a few stubborn vanity pounds. I think I am about half way to where I know I can be and at the rate of the Primal 15lbs per year, that will get me there in about 5 more years. I just think I can do better than that.

                              And if I can't, I can't. I am not stressing or driving myself bonkers over it, but I am mindful of what I am eating and when, and it seems to be making the difference. I will ride this train for as long as it lasts.
                              Just goes to show difference things work for different people! I also reached overload on "the science". Nothing has ever worked so well for me as this... which is balance

                              Originally posted by Leida View Post
                              Heya, I did not sprint every day, but I did 20 min HIIT 5 days a week (or attempted to). Unfortunately triggers hunger like nothing else, and I do not have enough stamina to keep it up. I would watch appetite seriously if you start sprinting as your daily workout & start with every other day. Playing basketball or soccer could be an interesting thing to try.
                              Thanks for the warning about appetite... The sprints I do are pretty mild: 6 x 100 metre sprints, with a decent recovery in between each one. I actually find they suppress my appetite...? Or maybe I'm imagining it. I'm just going to do it til thursday and see what happens...

                              Originally posted by Mikee5 View Post
                              Ok you don't want to go low carb, but you're consuming too many starches and it may be stalling your weight loss. Remember, Primal recommends starches in moderation and for athletes.

                              These weekly "treats", what do they usually consist of? They may be adding a lot towards your carb or fat intake or your cals.

                              I think there are a lot of things preventing speedier or more efficient weight loss here. Why not low carb? Overall, Mark recommends a lower carbohydrate intake for optimal weight loss, and this is generally the base principle of every low/restricted carbohydrate plan.

                              You can add a few berries and replace some of your starch with more green veggies if you want to remain at your carbohydrate level. White rice is not healthy eaten regularly, it's still a grain.

                              And honestly from somebody with an ED and BED background I can understand where you're coming from. Primal has reduced my appetite and I haven't even thought about the idea of binging once, considering I was a fructose addict that binged on bananas, grapes and other sugary fruit to ironically replace my initial sugar addiction that made me overweight in the first place BUT of course conventional wisdom places no restriction on fruit because it concentrates on its high nutritious benefits (the same nutritious content that can easily be found in vegetables) and ignores the high fructose content, which can be equally as bad as consuming refined sugar.

                              If you really are comfortable with your current diet maybe try and reduce cals by 50-200 and you might some results?
                              For me carbs ≠ weight gain. I was practically anorexic as a vegan. Easiest weight loss ever. But I know some people are fat as vegans. Low carb didn't get me as thin at all, and it triggered nightmarish BED. NO appetite reduction for me. In fact, I actually have less of an appetite when I'm eating a balance of foods, in favour of carbs...

                              Hope you're doing well on Primal now!

                              Originally posted by lemontwisst View Post
                              It's like Paleomom said in the EAT thread...doing what we've been doing for years hasn't been working, so what harm is there in trying something else entirely? As frustrating as some days can be when I feel fat and floppy and gross in my own skin, i know I'm working toward being healthier, regardless of what the scale shouts back at me. The fact you can be happy about what and how you're eating and not analysing every morsel and feeling good doing the exercise you are is a big plus. Honestly, there aren't many of us that don't wish we could lose a few pounds (or a few dozen)...I'd rather be healthy and content than always trying to attain some magical number on the scale.

                              Nothing conclusive about anything yet. The thyroid labs all came back 'mid-range', so no cause for any concern from my GP (despite a jump in TSH from 1.95 to 3.33 from Dec 2012 to Apr 2013). There were a few weeks in early April where I nearly hit bottom...to the point where I was so braindead I couldn't deal with work and the house could have been burning down around me but I couldn't get my dead arse off the couch. I remembered BestBetter's recommend in the EAT thread about a Raw Thyroid supplement and I got some shipped. Within two days of taking it, my energy had come back (still low, but it always is), my mind is still getting less fuzzy each day. That said a lot to me.
                              The water retention is still an issue and I swelled up like a balloon going out of town the weekend before last...got home late last Tuesday night and my legs and feet are just today back to the size they were when I left. Which is still swollen enough that I have constant pitting edema.
                              I have an appointment booked with a naturopath for next Tuesday afternoon, she specializes in dealing with Wilson's Temp Syndrome. Still dealing with low body temps, despite following Matt Stone's protocol(s) for raising body temp. Outside of the swelling flareup, though, my weight has stabilized after the EAT experiment, so that's a bonus.
                              Sorry for the hijack
                              Ha, that was actually me that said that in the EAT thread initially And thanks - you're right. For most people it's not as simple as going on a diet and losing weight. And anything is better than starving myself, binging, counting calories, obsessively thinking about what to eat etc etc.

                              My body temp didn't raise with Matt's protocol either - I don't think it works for everyone. Weirdly though, my energy is gradually improving... And seriously, I've been a wreck for the last few years. I don't know what to attribute it to, other than balance. But it's been continuous health improvements since EAT. Sleeping better, feeling more positive and happier... and my hair hasn't looked so good since I was a teenager! So something's obviously working. You're not still low carb, are you? when you did the EAT did you eat what you wanted or were you being strict with macros?

                              I'm with you on the water retention! Its annoying. Maybe you have digestive issues?

                              Great news on the weight stabilisation!
                              "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                              In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                              - Ray Peat

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I'm not unhappy that I went through it. It's so long ago, now, and ultimately the weight cleared itself in a year and then the hormonal problems went with it. I started fertility charting and self-healed my fertility as well.

                                Comment

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