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Do excess carbs turn to fat, even within calorie limits?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Your body burns glucose preferentially.
    Mine burns fats, some days at an alarming rate.
    YOURS burns glucose preferentially because it is toxic and must find a way to get rid of it.

    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    In order to store fat, you need a caloric surplus.
    Not perforce, you just need insulin to drive those calories.

    But listen guys... I am happy with my abs, my energy levels and my blood tests, and it seems you are happy with your results. After all, many vegans swear on their diet, too.
    Last edited by primal_alex; 06-04-2013, 10:10 PM.

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    • #77
      Yes, in the long run we are all dead.
      Few but ripe.

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      • #78
        Yet again another "carb vs fat" polluted thread ...

        I think the OP should be fine with primal eating (carb, fat, protein in whatever ratio because strict whole foods in a meal should more or less provide reasonable macro ratios, unless you only eat say potatoes or a jar of honey - which would not exactly qualify as a "varied meal").

        For me, the main question is whether the OP can have a plate of pasta or a loaf of wheat bread once in a while. If it were me, I would stay away from wheat without any exception. Even if you don't notice it, wheat will fuck you up. Is it worth it ? No. Consider wheat a toxin, a junkie's fix which will only potentially lead to more wheat. Same with refined sugar (HFCS, sucrose, agave sirup, etc) : not worth it.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
          Sincere question: do people ever gain "weight" (fat) without a caloric excess? Plenty of people on the forum seem to assert they got fat eating low-calorie just because they were eating too many carbs...
          Hi PrimalStudent,

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          The Skinny on Obesity (Ep. 1): An Epidemic for Every Body - YouTube
          The Skinny on Obesity (Ep. 2): Sickeningly Sweet - YouTube
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          • #80
            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
            Sisson's Carbohydrate Curve is a fabrication - a total lie. It does not exist. Not only is there absolutely no science behind it...
            You and Gorbag are competing for the craziest poster of 2013.

            The curve exists. If you are hanging out in nature eating leafs, carrots, cucumbers, it's darn hard to go over 100g a day.

            That's the level to which we are adapted, thus it does have a basis.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
              I guess what I'm asking is, does eating high-glycemic carbs or sugar affect your body fat composition and cause fat to store more easily, even if you don't eat excess calories?
              I think the answer is yes.

              It's an interesting question to which many people would like to know the answer.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                I think the answer is yes.

                It's an interesting question to which many people would like to know the answer.
                According to me, too. On the same amount of calories (counting calories s*cks, but that is to explain it in terms everybody understand), high-fat/low-carb promotes fat loss.

                Choco and Gorbag are correct when they say that any excess of calories promotes fattening, I am not arguing that. What they miss is that high-carb/low-fat may promote fattening even when calories are less than those needed. You feel tired because sugars are not used (they are stored), your metabolism slows down, etc. Carbs do not wait in your gut, peacefully waiting to be burnt, THEY BECOME YOUR GUT

                In the end, the point is not calories-in vs calories-out, that would be too simple: everybody would be able to get fit this way.
                Rather, it is a slightly more complex equation where the variables are: calories-in, calories-out, calories-stored-instead-of-burnt-because-of-insuline-peaks, glycemic-index, insulin resistance, type of sugar (fructose is so easily stored), genetic predisposition...

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
                  Choco and Gorbag are correct when they say that any excess of calories promotes fattening, I am not arguing that. What they miss is that high-carb/low-fat may promote fattening even when calories are less than those needed. You feel tired because sugars are not used (they are stored), your metabolism slows down, etc. Carbs do not wait in your gut, peacefully waiting to be burnt, THEY BECOME YOUR GUT
                  And all that fat you eat does not go to your gut? Even if excess carbs do go to your gut if you keep your calories in check your body will need to burn those calories from your fat in order to function. You could argue metabolic deranged people will simply get hungry since they are not adapted to burning fat and just over eat.. but that is speaking to a specific type of person.

                  EDIT: I see you wrote "may promote fattening".
                  Last edited by statikcat; 06-05-2013, 07:04 AM.

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                  • #84
                    Primal alex, your personal experience seems to be that carbs = body fat. If a HFLC way of eating is what works for you, then fine. Nutrition is a personal thing, and all that. But you're assuming that holds true for everyone, which is most certainly not true.
                    Is it as simple as CICO? No. Neither is it as simple as carbs make you fat, or fat makes you fat.
                    http://www.staffanlindeberg.com/Kita...les/000016.jpg
                    If carbs simply made you fat, that man wold have a much larger gut. I don't deny that a diet of processed grains and sugar can easily make a person fat - but that's not what we're talking about here.

                    KimchiNinja: While I owe Mark quite a bit, I think he very much misrepresents things with the carb curve. Not only does it incorrectly paint them as bad, it also is far, far to generalized.

                    As for eating 150g+ of carbs per day in nature, it totally depends where you're located. An classic Inuit would have taken in very, very little in the way of carbs. Someone like a Kitavan would have taken in a lot more than 150.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by statikcat View Post
                      And all that fat you eat does not go to your gut?
                      Yes, but without insulin it just takes longer. That's why carbs + fat is an explosive combination.

                      Originally posted by statikcat View Post
                      You could argue metabolic deranged people will simply get hungry since they are not adapted to burning fat and just over eat.. but that is speaking to a specific type of person.
                      Not just deranged people. Unfortunately we cannot decide, unless with strong will and dedication (which I do not have). It is a primitive instinct driven by ormons in your brain that tell you that you are starving.

                      Originally posted by statikcat View Post
                      EDIT: I see you wrote "may promote fattening".
                      Exactly: may. The condition for insulin to drive carbs to be converted into fat is that muscles and liver are aleady full of glycogen (early morning, 8 hours of office, etc). I do not see anything wrong in eating carbs after a workout and in fact that is what I do: big meal with lot of fresh vegetables and meat.

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                      • #87
                        Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
                        Mine burns fats, some days at an alarming rate.
                        YOURS burns glucose preferentially because it is toxic and must find a way to get rid of it.
                        OK, I was trying to be amicable before but this is the most ridiculously ignorant statement you could have possibly made.

                        Glucose is absolutely essential. Your body must have a bare minimum of 50g of glucose a day, even when running in full ketosis. When not eating a completely 0 carb diet, you need about 200g just for your brain to function. Glucose is so incredibly essential, your body will consume its own bone, connective tissue, muscles and organs to get it. Proteins are broken down. Try and fathom that - your body will eat its own heart, lungs and bone to get the 200-800 calories worth of glucose it absolutely needs for the brain to function. And you're calling it toxic? The body drives sugar out of the blood so quickly because it needs it so quickly.

                        Fat, on the other hand, is not readily and rapidly oxidized. It is used as a backup. It slows the metabolic rate. It is a hibernation fuel. It creates more stress hormones when you oxidize it because oxidizing free fatty acids is a side effect of famine. It is not what your body prefers. You can survive on it for a long time, yes, but everything functions better when glucose is in ample supply.

                        I will put my blood glucose numbers against yours. If you fear carbs like I think you do, I sense some type of physiological insulin resistance. I wouldn't be surprised if you had fasting BG's in the upper 80's or low 90's. I idle about 74.

                        Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
                        Not perforce, you just need insulin to drive those calories.
                        You do realize that protein generates more insulin that carbohydrate, right? You do realize you don't need insulin to store fat? right?

                        Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
                        But listen guys... I am happy with my abs, my energy levels and my blood tests, and it seems you are happy with your results. After all, many vegans swear on their diet, too.
                        This is true about vegans. This is because they view their diet more religiously than logically. You seem to fall into this group. Abs are a result of a caloric maintenance that supports them.



                        ^^^That guy has his calories under control. I would not want anything close to that look.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                        • #88
                          Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                          You and Gorbag are competing for the craziest poster of 2013.

                          The curve exists. If you are hanging out in nature eating leafs, carrots, cucumbers, it's darn hard to go over 100g a day.

                          That's the level to which we are adapted, thus it does have a basis.
                          The Carbohydrate Curve absolutely does not exist. There is no science on Planet Earth that supports it. It is complete opinion.

                          What do you think an actual human diet is? Hunter gatherers didn't eat grass and leaves unless they had do. Could you imagine expending hundreds of calories in walking to bring back 47 calories of leaves? We'd be dead as a species. Humans ate game meats, fruits and tubers. If the food does not contain more calories than the energy it expends to hunt and gather it, it is not worth collecting.

                          Grasses and leaves are starvation foods. If you think hunter gatherers ate salad, I don't think you're thinking logically. Cucumbers, leaves and carrots are a product of agriculture. Real foods: deer, coconut, pineapple, mangoes, bananas, sweet potatoes and yams.
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                          • #89
                            Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
                            Sincere question: do people ever gain "weight" (fat) without a caloric excess? Plenty of people on the forum seem to assert they got fat eating low-calorie just because they were eating too many carbs...
                            You can't gain weight without a caloric excess.

                            You can displace lean mass for fat without a caloric excess. Having a TDEE of 2,500 calories a day while lifting weights and eating a high protein diet will create a strikingly different build than the same person having a TDEE of 2,500 calories a day while doing no lifting, lots of cardio and eating a low protein diet.

                            Studies have shown thin people overestimate their calorie intake by up to 50% and overweight people underestimate their calorie intake by up to 50%. People that think they eat 1,200 calories a day and don't lose weight probably eat a lot more than that, and a handful of them are probably so severely hypothyroid from chronic starvation and nutrient deficiencies that they can't undereat their TDEE without triggering massive binging.
                            Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-05-2013, 09:12 AM.
                            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                            Comment


                            • #90
                              Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                              Carbs will almost never be converted to fat, not even in a calorie surplus
                              Fructose is always converted to fat. Just sayin.

                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post


                              ^^^That guy has his calories under control. I would not want anything close to that look.
                              LM-MF-AO
                              Last edited by IcarianVX; 06-05-2013, 09:34 AM.
                              People too weak to follow their own dreams will always try to discourage others.

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