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Do excess carbs turn to fat, even within calorie limits?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
    Where are the sugars then?

    Not in the muscles (because as long as they are full of glycogen they can't take more).
    In the blood? I doubt, the pancreas, as long as it still works fine, will do everything in his power to get rid of extra sugars.
    In the liver? Possibly, it goes under the name of fatty liver disease.
    The rest, trust me, is stored.

    If you allow me to paraphrase your sentence: the body's inefficiency to store excess of fat as fat in a low carbohydrate setting.
    They are not stored. They are used for energy. Not only in the muscle but every cell in the body. Under normal conditions. Under chronically overfed individuals some of it (mostly fructose) will be converted to fat in the liver and stored in and around the liver.

    But this does not happen until insulin resistance. Again, if carb storage as fat is supposed to happen and is such an easy process why does metabolic syndrome happen?

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    Last edited by chima_p; 06-04-2013, 12:45 PM.
    Don't be a paleotard...

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...oxidation.html

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...torage-qa.html

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    • #62
      Originally posted by chima_p View Post
      They are not stored. They are used for energy. Not only in the muscle but every cell in the body. Under normal conditions. Under chronically overfed individuals some of it (mostly fructose) will be converted to fat in the liver and stored in and around the liver.
      And while waiting to be used for energy? Where are they?

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      • #63
        Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
        And while waiting to be used for energy? Where are they?
        Digestion. Mostly in your gut. It takes hours to digest a meal. Your cells can store hundreds of grams of glucose. Which is nearly depleted when you wake up. Not full as you suggest. How many carbs do you think are consumed in one bloody(bready, lol) meal?

        Sent from my Nexus S using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
        Don't be a paleotard...

        http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...oxidation.html

        http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...torage-qa.html

        http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...rn-fat-qa.html

        http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...-you-need.html

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        • #64
          Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
          And while waiting to be used for energy? Where are they?
          Some stay in your stomach/intestines, glycogen synthesis and energy burn-off, some extra glycogen, can be super compensated to overstretch the normal storage capacity for a while, and the body immediately ramp up the heat and energy production, and work much harder on repairing damaged tissue after a heavy carb meal...
          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

          - Schopenhauer

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          • #65
            Originally posted by chima_p View Post
            Your cells can store hundreds of grams of glucose.
            Insulin resistance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

            Originally posted by chima_p View Post
            Which is nearly depleted when you wake up. Not full as you suggest.
            So actually, resting makes me tired? I never realized it. I thought that during 8 hours of inactivity the body took its time to refill the muscles and get ready for the new day. I was wrong

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            • #66
              Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
              And while waiting to be used for energy? Where are they?
              Why do they have to be waiting somewhere? My body requires around 2000 calories a day just for basic functioning. I don't know.. maybe the carbs you eat... ya know go towards that...

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              • #67
                Originally posted by primal_alex View Post


                So actually, resting makes me tired? I never realized it. I thought that during 8 hours of inactivity the body took its time to refill the muscles and get ready for the new day. I was wrong
                Refill with what? The glucose you have been eating throughout the day. If you know the answers to your own questions why do you ask?

                Sent from my Nexus S using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
                Don't be a paleotard...

                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...oxidation.html

                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...torage-qa.html

                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...rn-fat-qa.html

                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...-you-need.html

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by chima_p View Post
                  Refill with what? The glucose you have been eating throughout the day. If you know the answers to your own questions why do you ask?

                  Sent from my Nexus S using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
                  I ask while answering my own question

                  Sent from my Nexus S using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
                  Don't be a paleotard...

                  http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...oxidation.html

                  http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...torage-qa.html

                  http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...rn-fat-qa.html

                  http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...-you-need.html

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
                    Where are the sugars then?

                    Not in the muscles (because as long as they are full of glycogen they can't take more).
                    Your glycogen stores are almost never full. Your liver depletes completely overnight. Eating lunch at 12pm and then dinner at 6pm is plenty of time to free up glycogen in your liver and muscles just sitting on your butt at a desk at work to create space. If you're consuming too many carbs that they're being stored as fat, it's because you're simply consuming too many calories.

                    Your body burns glucose preferentially. This whole "fat burning beast" thing Sisson speak of is marketing. You always burn fat and glucose simultaneously, but when you consume more carbohydrate, you burn a higher ratio of glucose:free fatty acids and vice versa. Restricting carbs simply starves your body of its primary fuel source, so it resorts to burning free fatty acids, which are less energy efficient and generate more stress hormones and AGE's along the way. Restricting carbohydrate to burn fat is a great way to slow your mitochondria, weaken your muscles, increase stress hormones and age more quickly. I prefer to eat more carbohydrate than fat for this reason.

                    Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
                    In the blood? I doubt, the pancreas, as long as it still works fine, will do everything in his power to get rid of extra sugars.
                    In the liver? Possibly, it goes under the name of fatty liver disease.
                    The rest, trust me, is stored.

                    If you allow me to paraphrase your sentence: the body's inefficiency to store excess of fat as fat in a low carbohydrate setting.
                    You're confused.

                    In order to store fat, you need a caloric surplus.

                    After a surplus:

                    - Excess fat can be stored directly as fat.

                    - Excess carbohydrate must be converted via de novo lipogenesis. If you are consuming so much carbohydrate that it's being converted into fat by de novo lipogenesis, this means all your dietary fat was already stored. So even if you're storing carbs as fat, you're storing fat as fat as well.

                    Excess calories lead to weight gain, but dietary fat is the most likely to be stored as fat and not lean mass.
                    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-04-2013, 04:39 PM.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                      Your glycogen stores are almost never full. Your liver depletes completely overnight. Eating lunch at 12pm and then dinner at 6pm is plenty of time to free up glycogen in your liver and muscles just sitting on your butt at a desk at work to create space. If you're consuming too many carbs that they're being stored as fat, it's because you're simply consuming too many calories.

                      Your body burns glucose preferentially. This whole "fat burning beast" thing Sisson speak of is marketing. You always burn fat and glucose simultaneously, but when you consume more carbohydrate, you burn a higher ratio of glucose:free fatty acids and vice versa. Restricting carbs simply starves your body of its primary fuel source, so it resorts to burning free fatty acids, which are less energy efficient and generate more stress hormones and AGE's along the way. Restricting carbohydrate to burn fat is a great way to slow your mitochondria, weaken your muscles, increase stress hormones and age more quickly. I prefer to eat more carbohydrate than fat for this reason.


                      You're confused.

                      In order to store fat, you need a caloric surplus.

                      After a surplus:

                      - Excess fat can be stored directly as fat.

                      - Excess carbohydrate must be converted via de novo lipogenesis. If you are consuming so much carbohydrate that it's being converted into fat by de novo lipogenesis, this means all your dietary fat was already stored. So even if you're storing carbs as fat, you're storing fat as fat as well.

                      Excess calories lead to weight gain, but dietary fat is the most likely to be stored as fat and not lean mass.
                      Sincere question: do people ever gain "weight" (fat) without a caloric excess? Plenty of people on the forum seem to assert they got fat eating low-calorie just because they were eating too many carbs...

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                      • #71
                        People become insulin resistant by eating tons of PUFA, then gain weight, and choose to blame the carbohydrates. Afterwards, they fall back on VLC, lose water weight and muscle mass, claim it's the greatest thing in the world, without realizing they're releasing tons of toxic fat that can't produce ATP, shortens ATP production, and damages your health in more ways than anyone realizes.

                        Has there ever actually been a randomized trial where human beings ate all the right types of carbs and sugar, without fat, and gained weight within caloric boundaries? Didn't think so.
                        Make America Great Again

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                          I do eat clean and healthy 95% of the time, but indulging in a plate of pasta once in a while would actually help me feel like I'm not deprived and stay on a healthy diet. I do get what you're saying and realize that an indulgence usually has little nutrients, but it's not really answering my question whether one day of eating some pasta or a lot of carbs stores body fat, even if I don't gain weight?
                          If you keep your calories below your daily requirement you will not gain any fat, but increasing your carb macros may result in retaining some water which will cause a gain of 1 to 3 lbs. but you will be fine after a couple of days of returning to your Paleo/Primal eating patterns.
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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
                            50g carbs
                            120g proteins
                            140g fats
                            So, what kinds of foods does one need to eat in order to get 140g of fat per day?
                            And 120g of protein? That's a lot of eggs for example.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
                              Sincere question: do people ever gain "weight" (fat) without a caloric excess? Plenty of people on the forum seem to assert they got fat eating low-calorie just because they were eating too many carbs...
                              This question is tricky because "calories out" varies minute by minute and is difficult to calculate for individual cases. Without knowing CO we cannot define "excess" or "low-calorie".

                              My hunch is that the USDA 300g/60% carb diet carries a virtual guarantee of including wheat and sugar, which seem to produce satiety defects in many people and influence subsequent consumption. So there's probably a caloric excess, but that doesn't make it the first domino in the row.
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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by picklepete View Post
                                This question is tricky because "calories out" varies minute by minute and is difficult to calculate for individual cases. Without knowing CO we cannot define "excess" or "low-calorie".
                                I always insist that weight-gain is an indication of calorific excess and not the other way around.

                                What we can measure without uncertainty is the change in weight and hence we can use that as an indicator for calorific balance. Calorific balance of the "system" has a lot of other variables affecting it in a non-linear way (for example calories supplied themselves can affect calories expended). People usually go around trying to find calories to explain the weight gained/lost. Bad science.
                                Few but ripe.

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