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Do excess carbs turn to fat, even within calorie limits?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
    What actually happens is that if you were to consume a large amount of carbs at a sitting (a situation often known as a "meal"), the glucose rises in the bloodstream. It does not stay at an elevated level indefinitely until your energy use requires it, uses it up, and brings it down to FBS level again. Your system will harvest the excess and put it into storage (fat) for when it may be needed at a later time (famine).
    You need huuuge amounts of carbs for that to happen, se my other postings above, - de-novo-lipogenesis almost never happens under normal circumstances...
    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

    - Schopenhauer

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
      Hi,

      I'm a new member and this is my first post. I've been reading around on Mark's Daily Apple and online, but all the information is just overwhelming, and I still can't find a definite answer to my question. I eat about 25% of my calories from carbs, so but sometimes I want to indulge in a high-carb, high-glycemic pastry or sweet. I'm wondering, I know having a lot of carbs at once can spike insulin and cause excess carbs to store as fat, but when I have a cheat day but still eat within my calorie limits, I know I won't gain weight but will I still gain fat? Or is fat gain just calorie in, calorie out?

      I don't want to be restrictive and I'm wondering if I can include some carby indulgences once in a while. Please don't recommend eating a paleo dessert instead or something like that; sometimes I'm just craving a biscotti and I want a biscotti, but I want to know if that will affect my body composition.
      Excess calories turn into excess weight 100% of the time. If you're overeating protein, carbs or fat, some of each will be stored as lean mass and fat. In my experience:

      1.) Excess protein is least likely to be stored as fat and most likely stored as lean tissue. High protein diets will make you gain "weight" as quickly in excess as other diets, but they are the least "fattening."

      2.) Excess carbohydrate immediately post-workout is stored almost all as muscle up to around a 25-30% surplus. The more you increase, the more you start to store fat. Moderate overeating post-workout is beneficial but stuffing yourself til you're ill never seems to be ideal. Excess carbohydrate when sedentary can be fattening.

      3.) Excess dietary fat at anytime is more likely to be stored as fat than excess carbohydrate in similar situations. Fat is less anabolic than carbohydrate. Saturated fats are superior than unsaturated fats because they better support thyroid function and boost testosterone - overeating red meat, coconut and dairy is superior to overeating chicken, pork, nuts and obviously unsaturated oils. Those bodybuilders tend to consume lots of steak, eggs and dairy for a reason, even if they don't quite know why.

      4.) Consuming an excess of fat AND carbohydrate in unison stores mostly as fat.

      When I know a large meal is coming up and I know I'm going to overeat, I try to overeat lean proteins and fruits/starches. This will at least take advantage of free glycogen stores, and since carbs and protein elevate the metabolic rate, overconsuming significantly will have less of an effect than fat. If I know the foods will be particularly fatty, like a breakfast buffet (eggs, bacon, sausage) or a Brazilian steakhouse where I really go to town, I try and avoid carbohydrate and stick to strictly protein and fat to at least keep me in a "burn" state while my metabolism is elevated from huge amounts of salt and protein.

      If this makes sense, ice cream and chocolate cake are both great for gaining "weight," but ice cream is less fattening and is a supremely anabolic food. However, lean steak and steamed or baked potatoes in equal calories will crush them both. Ice cream makes me gain weight very quickly. I was consuming ice cream several times a week to get stronger, and my benchpress shot up to 250x3 at 160 lbs. I stopped consuming it due to fat gain, but I got freaking strong as hell. I cut it out completely and I dropped to 145 lbs currently, but 250 lbs once is a serious struggle now. It is uncomfortable for me to consume lean meats, fruits and starches in the same quantity I could consume ice cream. There is always room for ice cream! I'll consume it again in the fall when the shirt stays on all the time and I want to gain more mass.

      Finally, if I know I'm going to overconsume, I always make sure to lift heavy and hard shortly beforehand to minimize damage.

      Hope this helps.
      Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-03-2013, 10:31 AM.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
        Yep, unless that you eat more than 700 - 900 gram of carbs per day for an average person
        The average person gets fat with "just" 300g per day. Actually I used to be 22% BMI with less than 300g (and doing 4 to 5 hours of gym per week).

        Now I eat 50g of carbs per day (and 140g of fat), doing 2 hours of gym per week, and I am featuring a stunning 9% BMI. I am not the only one here who can confirm how easily carbs are stored and on the contrary, how good it feels to be on fats.

        Just curious: let's say you eat 600 grams of carbs per day, which you claim to be safe. Where are those sugars all the time?

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        • #34
          Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
          The average person gets fat with "just" 300g per day. Actually I used to be 22% BMI with less than 300g (and doing 4 to 5 hours of gym per week).?
          What's your point? You can gain fat on 50 grams of carbs as well if in a calorie surplus, but the fat stored on your body comes from dietary fat, except under some rather extreme circumstances...

          Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
          Just curious: let's say you eat 600 grams of carbs per day, which you claim to be safe. Where are those sugars all the time?
          And where have I claimed that to be "safe"? Try to read my postings above again! You will gain fat in a calorie surplus, true story...
          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

          - Schopenhauer

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          • #35
            Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
            Real fruitarians become emaciated. They also have chronic diarrhea and have to eat all the time. Even if they eat lots of nuts and avocados, they normally struggle to keep pure.
            I am not sure if chronic diarrhea hypothesis is true. I take a few days frutarian-break once in a while and i notice the opposite effect. My toilet times during those days are the best ever!
            Few but ripe.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
              What's your point? You can gain fat on 50 grams of carbs as well if in a calorie surplus, but the fat stored on your body comes from dietary fat, except under some rather extreme circumstances...



              And where have I claimed that to be "safe"? Try to read my postings above again! You will gain fat in a calorie surplus, true story...
              So is Mark wrong in his low-carb stance (when he posits that excess carbs tend to get stored as fat)? I, too, feel much better when adding starch and fruit to my diet, and can't wrap my head around Mark's belief that anything above 50g carbs per day will lead to "insidious weight gain" for anyone who doesn't run marathons.

              Two years ago, I was a calorie-counter getting at least 50% of my calories from carbs, and I was just as lean as I am today (on high-fat primal, albeit a frequently-hungry high-fat primal)

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              • #37
                Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
                The average person gets fat with "just" 300g per day. Actually I used to be 22% BMI with less than 300g (and doing 4 to 5 hours of gym per week).
                300g of carbs a day is only 1,200 calories. The average person would starve to death consuming 300g of carbs a day.

                Now, bulk it with excess protein and fat and now you have an issue.

                It is entirely caloric. The Carbohydrate Curve is a lie. It doesn't exist. If lowering carbs helps you lose weight, it's only because you've made your food so unpalatable you no longer want to eat enough of it to make maintain your weight. Removing carbs removes food reward, so you eat less. Removing fat will do the same thing if not intensify the fat loss.
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
                  So is Mark wrong in his low-carb stance (when he posits that excess carbs tend to get stored as fat)? I, too, feel much better when adding starch and fruit to my diet, and can't wrap my head around Mark's belief that anything above 50g carbs per day will lead to "insidious weight gain" for anyone who doesn't run marathons.
                  When you eat carbs, the fat you consume along with it is stored as fat - assuming you're eating a caloric excess, which is far more likely when you mix fat AND carbs since it triggers your brain to crave more food. Carbohydrate is very rarely stored as fat, and protein is even rarer. If you are gaining fat, it is almost always dietary fat being stored. The body doesn't store carbs as fat very well, but consuming carbs will slow fat burning, so any excess fat you consume sticks to your ribs more easily. If you're going to consume lots of carbs, it's best to keep fat low and vice versa to keep your brain from intensifying cravings.
                  Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
                    So is Mark wrong in his low-carb stance (when he posits that excess carbs tend to get stored as fat)? I, too, feel much better when adding starch and fruit to my diet, and can't wrap my head around Mark's belief that anything above 50g carbs per day will lead to "insidious weight gain" for anyone who doesn't run marathons.
                    There may be good reasons to go low carbs for a while on a diet since it blunt cravings for many people and make dieters eat less, but the statement; "excess carbs tend to get stored as fat" is incorrect as it stands, yes, what matters for weight loss is primarily whether you are in a calorie deficit or not. Dietary fat is the macronutrient that almost always ends up on your body, if in a calorie surplus...
                    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                    - Schopenhauer

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
                      Now I eat 50g of carbs per day (and 140g of fat), doing 2 hours of gym per week, and I am featuring a stunning 9% BMI.
                      1. Your overall calorie intake when you are taking 50g carbs is probably much lower than when you were taking 300g (i doubt they were all "clean carbs"). Largely due to satiety effect of fat/protein that is replacing your lost carb.

                      2. Being primal means you are eating toxin free and generally high quality foods. Therefore you "feel" better. Nothing to do with carb intake per se. I get the same feeling of well being during the days when i am eating only fruits.
                      Few but ripe.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
                        Mark's belief that anything above 50g carbs per day will lead to "insidious weight gain" for anyone who doesn't run marathons.
                        You probably should read a little more. Mark doesn't say that at all.
                        up to 50g -ketosis Not recommended for prolonged periods (except in medically supervised programs for obese or Type 2 diabetics
                        50g-100g weight loss sweet spot;
                        100g-150g
                        : effortless weight maintenance
                        150g-300g : Insidious Weight Gain zone.
                        300+ grams : Danger Zone of average American diet. All but the most extreme exercisers will tend to produce excessive insulin and store excessive fat over the years at this intake level



                        When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
                        27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
                        new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

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                        • #42
                          Hi Gorbag,

                          Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                          What's your point? You can gain fat on 50 grams of carbs as well if in a calorie surplus
                          I absolutely agree. Eating too many calories will make the body store them, no matter they come from carbs or fats. That's evolution, we are meant to survive periods of famine.

                          Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                          but the fat stored on your body comes from dietary fat, except under some rather extreme circumstances...
                          I do not agree. Carbs trigger insuline (fats don't). Carbs are more easily stored than fats.


                          I do not usually speak about calories, but let's make an example anyway. Eat 2000 calories like this:

                          280g carbs
                          120g proteins
                          25g fats

                          and eat the same amount of calories, but like this:

                          50g carbs
                          120g proteins
                          140g fats

                          You are more likely to get fatter with the first. Also, despite the same number of calories, you'll feel less energetic with the first and funny enough, despite all those carbs, you'll be in hypoglycemy, thus hungry. It will be a challange not to overeat on a high carb diet (and that's why the SAD fails), while you'll be always fine on a high fat.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by 70in2012 View Post
                            2. Being primal means you are eating toxin free and generally high quality foods. Therefore you "feel" better. Nothing to do with carb intake per se. I get the same feeling of well being during the days when i am eating only fruits.
                            I've always eaten clean (no processed food) and from high quality ingredients (read: organic). My problem was that I was sure fats were making me fat (although 22% is not obese), and carbs were the preferred fuel for humans. That's simply wrong and it takes courage to accept it.

                            What prevented me from getting the "Fight Club Silhouette" was the fatless chicken breast and steamed white rice "with just one tablespoon of oil of olive".

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by primal_alex View Post
                              What prevented me from getting the "Fight Club Silhouette" was the fatless chicken breast and steamed white rice "with just one tablespoon of oil of olive".
                              If this was a staple meal, then yes, I would understand why you would not get a ripped look: it is not very nutritious at all.
                              Replace the fatless chicken breast with grass fed organic lamb liver, and the white rice with sweet potatoes ... you would get a different result. Sure, the liver would have more fat but it is not so much the fat as fuel that matters most but the fact that it is a much better vehicle for mineral / micro-nutrient absorption. White rice is devoid of everything you really need, except for starches. Fatless chicken breast has proteins but apart from that, you don't get much else.

                              You need a good amount of micro-nutrients to help your hormonal balance and activities. White rice and fatless chicken is just not right and this is why you need animal fat: fuel yes, but also for fat soluble micro-goodies. It is not only about carbs vs fat, it would be too easy, wouldn't it

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by dkJames View Post
                                Replace the fatless chicken breast with grass fed organic lamb liver, and the white rice with sweet potatoes ... you would get a different result.
                                It would also taste a lot nicer.
                                Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

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                                (Date is New Zealand Time UTC+ 12hours)

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