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Do excess carbs turn to fat, even within calorie limits?

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  • #16
    true, by the end I was eating 80% carbs. Its no wonder I'm dying
    When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
    27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
    new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
      I eat about 25% of my calories from carbs, so but sometimes I want to indulge in a high-carb, high-glycemic pastry or sweet. I'm wondering, I know having a lot of carbs at once can spike insulin and cause excess carbs to store as fat
      Depends on who you are (genetics), your lifestyle (sedentary, couch potato or always on the move), your meal frequency (from once a day to grazing all day long) and meal composition.

      but when I have a cheat day but still eat within my calorie limits, I know I won't gain weight but will I still gain fat? Or is fat gain just calorie in, calorie out?
      Here is the deal: whether you eat primal or not, you will store fat to some extent (whether from excess dietary fat or carbs). What matters is how you can maximize fat oxidation so that you do not store MORE fat than you really want and maintain a healthy body fat / lean tissue ratio and overall weight.


      I don't want to be restrictive and I'm wondering if I can include some carby indulgences once in a while.
      If you are metabolically "broken" (insulin resistant, etc) then I see why you talk about restricting carbs. What would matter in this case is to restore your insulin sensitivity. That could be from restricting carbs and / or fasting for long periods (like 20h / day).
      If you are already lean and healthy, there is no such thing as "restriction" so long as your body is efficient at oxidizing the fuel you provide it and that is stored.

      Please don't recommend eating a paleo dessert instead or something like that; sometimes I'm just craving a biscotti and I want a biscotti, but I want to know if that will affect my body composition.
      Well, it depends on the meaning of "sometimes". If your biscotti is made out of wheat, then you can find yourself eating more of them than you think ... if you have not done that, ditch wheat entirely from your diet.

      If it is a rice-cake or whatever starch flour that is not full of gluten, the "sometimes" could turn into seldom as you are eating otherwise very healthy foods (primal). The power of wheat is strong and makes you crave for it, now you know.

      Regarding body composition, as long as you move your butt a lot (lots of walking and a few heavier workouts during the week + some sprints here and there), you will do absolutely fine. If you start from obese / morbidly obese, go very low carb and moderate protein - high fat for a while and fix your weight issue. When you get close to your ideal weight (like 10-15 lbs above), up your carbs and cycle your macros (VLC for 4-5 days, high carb low fat for 1-2 days). And when I say carbs, prefer the healthy starches (potato, plantain, even white rice occasionally, even not so ripe bananas) and avoid refined sugars and stuff high in fructose.
      Last edited by dkJames; 06-02-2013, 10:55 AM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by CarbDodger View Post
        true, by the end I was eating 80% carbs. Its no wonder I'm dying
        OK, and if I remember correctly, the scientific literature mention that de-novo lipogenesis(= carbs converted to fat) CAN happen, but you need 700 - 900 grams of carbs(!) for several days for an average person, AFTER the glycogen stores of the body are already full - and you must also be in a calorie surplus for it to take place...
        "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

        - Schopenhauer

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
          OK, and if I remember correctly, the scientific literature mention that de-novo lipogenesis(= carbs converted to fat) CAN happen, but you need 700 - 900 grams of carbs(!) for several days for an average person, AFTER the glycogen stores of the body are already full - and you must also be in a calorie surplus for it to take place...
          I guess, all it would take is to NOT deplete your glycogen store, and continue to eat carbs, especially fructose + dietary fat. Since insulin inhibits fat oxidation momentarily, fat + fructose ingested all day long while lying in bed would make you really fat rather fast

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
            I don't doubt that at all - but did you not eat any fat at all then - zero fat??? What we know is that carbs will hardly be converted to fat, but you will still be fat if overeating carbs, only that it is incoming fat that will be stored as fat in your body...
            Interesting... so does this imply that, should you overeat calorie-wise, dietary fat is what gets stored, rather than dietary carbs?

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            • #21
              What I understand is that if you eat some high glycemic carbohydrate, what happens is your body has to process the sugars first and that while it's busy with that, it's storing calories from fat as fat. Once it processes the sugar it may also convert that to fat as well because fat is your body's energy storage. Glycogen is also your body's energy storage and some energy gets stored there, too. Of course, you're not in a state of suspended animation while this is going on, so while it's going on you are burning stored energy, either from stored glycogen or fat. If you are basically in a calorie deficit, whatever got stored as fat will be consumed for energy. So you can do all that and still lose weight because you are in a calorie deficit. The fat is going in and out all the time.

              What the others are saying about nutrient deficits is worth listening to. Women tend to live their whole lives in a nutrient deficit state because they are either always dieting and overexercising or they are eating junky crap like most people. So if you are trying to lose weight it is much better for you to favor highly nutritious foods, foods you might not consider favorites, stuff like oysters and liver and seafood and leafy greens. Get enough high nutrient food and the occasional junky stuff isn't a big deal.

              The whole low carb thing is that when people get too messed up hormonally (diabetes, and that sort of stuff) they have a really hard time accessing fat for energy. So that's why low carb works. It takes away the problem and lets the body relearn how to access fat for energy. If you aren't broken that way, you won't have the same sense of relief. You'll lose some water weight but you won't have a big advantage as far as weight loss. If you are broken, it'll be like a miracle.

              The real benefit of eating primal (and all the rest of the program) for people who aren't fat and broken is that it gives you a feeling of health and vitality that you may never have had before. I've been doing this for 1.5 years and I still wake up some days in wonder that I feel even MORE healthy than I did the day before. It just gets better.
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                If you are broken, it'll be like a miracle.

                The real benefit of eating primal (and all the rest of the program) for people who aren't fat and broken is that it gives you a feeling of health and vitality that you may never have had before. I.
                For me it has been but I have a lot of fat to lose. I also benefit from the feeling of health and vitality and have actually never felt as good since I was 8!
                When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
                27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
                new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
                  Interesting... so does this imply that, should you overeat calorie-wise, dietary fat is what gets stored, rather than dietary carbs?
                  it seems anything in excess of what we need gets stored as fat ultimately
                  When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
                  27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
                  new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CarbDodger View Post
                    it seems anything in excess of what we need gets stored as fat ultimately
                    That is what it seems like. Of course, if all you ate was MCT oil, maybe things would work out differently. But that is not exactly viable as a long term diet

                    The fat storing mechanism is really an amazing strategy by the way. Just think if we had to store starches instead ... we would look like giant potatoes unable to move around ...

                    Now, I suspect that the secret for a healthy life is to adopt a lifestyle that allows you to use your fat store efficiently on a daily basis. So far in my journey toward discovering my SHS (Super Healthy Self), I found that one meal a day is the best tool to achieve this goal, provided that I work out reasonably when fasting and that my food is "primal" and of high quality. There is no looking back for me.

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                    • #25
                      I guess, all it would take is to NOT deplete your glycogen store, and continue to eat carbs, especially fructose + dietary fat. Since insulin inhibits fat oxidation momentarily, fat + fructose ingested all day long while lying in bed would make you really fat rather fast
                      Carbs are very seldom converted to fat, even in a calorie surplus. What happens in a calorie surplus is that you store almost everything of incoming fat and burn less of stored bodyfat, and burn off the incoming carbs for energy. Only under rare circumstances will carbs be converted to fat...
                      So a 100% fruitarian diet should be effective in losing fat?
                      Few but ripe.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 70in2012 View Post
                        So a 100% fruitarian diet should be effective in losing fat?
                        If fat loss is what you are after, eating only fruits will get you there. It is just not maintainable without health issues in the long run and you will have to supplement for things you don't find in fruits.

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                        • #27
                          How can carbs be in "excess" when within calorie limits?
                          Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

                          Fitocracy Workout Tracker:
                          https://www.fitocracy.com/profile/Shadowknight137/?feed
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                          (Date is New Zealand Time UTC+ 12hours)

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 70in2012 View Post
                            So a 100% fruitarian diet should be effective in losing fat?
                            Real fruitarians become emaciated. They also have chronic diarrhea and have to eat all the time. Even if they eat lots of nuts and avocados, they normally struggle to keep pure.
                            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                              Carbs are very seldom converted to fat, even in a calorie surplus. What happens in a calorie surplus is that you store almost everything of incoming fat and burn less of stored bodyfat, and burn off the incoming carbs for energy. Only under rare circumstances will carbs be converted to fat...
                              What actually happens is that if you were to consume a large amount of carbs at a sitting (a situation often known as a "meal"), the glucose rises in the bloodstream. It does not stay at an elevated level indefinitely until your energy use requires it, uses it up, and brings it down to FBS level again. Your system will harvest the excess and put it into storage (fat) for when it may be needed at a later time (famine). And when what glucose remains in your bloodstream is used up, you will get hungry, which is your body telling you to fuel up again. Should you not eat more food at that point, your body will start to convert back some of that stored fat into energy. During this process hunger and cravings will increase, so you will need to exert massive willpower to keep from following your body's message (eating).

                              So for a person who tends to eat mostly carbs, eating frequent small controlled doses of carbs will tend to keep carb metabolism from putting more into fat. Eating large, carb-heavy meals will result in running out of energy, getting massively hungry between meals (even though you ate enough calories), and snacking up over your daily limit.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by PrimalStudent View Post
                                Interesting... so does this imply that, should you overeat calorie-wise, dietary fat is what gets stored, rather than dietary carbs?
                                Yep, unless that you eat more than 700 - 900 gram of carbs per day for an average person - that's a lot! - for several days after all your glycogen stores in muscles and liver are filled up. Carbs will almost never be converted to fat, not even in a calorie surplus, because the body will ramp up the heat and energy production and spend the carbs on energy and store most of incoming dietary fat...
                                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                                - Schopenhauer

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