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Do excess carbs turn to fat, even within calorie limits?

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  • This is what I take.

    Vitacost Thyroid Complex

    I don't see how it would be dangerous. 70mg of "glandular complex" made up of "liver, pancreatin 4X, spleen, kidney, lung and adrenal tissue" isn't too intimidating. It's essentially a multivitamin. I take it because for months upon months, I'd get cold after eating. Eating more fruit and starch in lieu of fat seemed to have helped. This seems to have fully corrected the issue. Most Americans are hypothyroid to a degree. Even with a solid diet and a very good exercise regimen, I cannot compensate that I am damned to an office chair all day and get little fresh air and sunshine. I also don't get as much sleep as I should. All these things contribute, and some are out of my control.

    EDIT - Actually I think this site may be missing an ingredient. I'm pretty sure my bottle says thyroxine-free thyroid powder on it. I'm going to have to check when I get home. Will update later.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-06-2013, 10:04 AM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    • Now something like this would be a considerable step up:

      Natural Sources Raw Thyroid -- 90 Capsules - Vitacost

      This contains 390mg of "Thyroid Tissue, Adrenal Tissue, Pituitary Tissue, Thymus Tissue, Spleen Tissue, White Kidney Ginseng."

      Probably more similar to Armour Thyroid. Which I don't see as dangerous. Not compared to that Synthroid crap people take.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
        Yep!

        You lose weight by maintaining a calorie deficit. You make a calorie deficit maintainable by eating the most satiating, nutritious foods you can. You do this by skewing protein higher at the expense of fat and carbs. You cannot burn stored fat until the dietary fat and carbohydrate you eat are in a deficit, so you have to drop them. As a consequence, you must maintain protein levels (or upregulate them) to ensure most of your "weight" lost on your deficit is fat. We don't want to lose muscle, here!

        I find myself eating chicken breast, 93+% ground beef, london broil, cottage cheese and trimmed pork loin when cutting. I considerably increase vegetables and considerably decrease fruit and starch intake as well, except after my lifts where I "carb up" heavily. I don't do much fat, period, minus coconut products to maintain thyroid. I also take dessicated thyroid. It seems to be working well. In the past 10 weeks I've dropped 8 lbs effortlessly without counting a calorie. I'm down to 144 lbs.
        Hi Choco. Earlier you mentioned that are simultaneously high in carbs and fat are a recipe for fat gain... Does that mean that a meal containing 20g carbs, 20g fat, and 20g protein is a recipe for fat gain? Or do the fat/carb numbers both need to be much higher? I ask because most of my meals are around that ratio (but I'm always in a caloric deficit anyway, so I'm not sure if it even matters)

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        • Originally posted by ForgotMyOldUsername View Post
          Hi Choco. Earlier you mentioned that are simultaneously high in carbs and fat are a recipe for fat gain... Does that mean that a meal containing 20g carbs, 20g fat, and 20g protein is a recipe for fat gain? Or do the fat/carb numbers both need to be much higher? I ask because most of my meals are around that ratio (but I'm always in a caloric deficit anyway, so I'm not sure if it even matters)
          It only matters if it's in a caloric surplus. 20g of carbs, 20g of fat and 20g of protein is 340 calories. That sure isn't much. If you eat that after you've already maxed out your calories for the day it would be fattening. If that's all your eating all day you'll waste away to nothing.
          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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          • wow im getting confused...
            so i always thought high-glycemic carbs, or a lot of carbs at once, raised insulin which then stored the carbs as fat easily because the body digests them faster. But some seem to say dietary fat, not carbs, are stored directly as fat. Then why is it you can get "skinny fat" eating a high-carb diet, but not so on a high fat diet?

            Also, I'm speaking of a high-carb day once in a while where I can not care about my macro ratios as much, not as a lifestyle change. I have no insulin, diabetic, or metabolic issues and am not at all overweight.

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            • And the battle rages on...
              Crohn's, doing SCD

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              • Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                wow im getting confused...
                so i always thought high-glycemic carbs, or a lot of carbs at once, raised insulin which then stored the carbs as fat easily because the body digests them faster. But some seem to say dietary fat, not carbs, are stored directly as fat. Then why is it you can get "skinny fat" eating a high-carb diet, but not so on a high fat diet?

                Also, I'm speaking of a high-carb day once in a while where I can not care about my macro ratios as much, not as a lifestyle change. I have no insulin, diabetic, or metabolic issues and am not at all overweight.
                Because you are thinking in absolutes. You burn both glucose and fat all day. The ratio changes depending on substrate levels and activity. The higher the intensity the more glucose. The lower the intensity the more fat. Unless you still have glucose in your blood then the preferred substrate will be glucose.

                Sent from my Nexus S using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app
                Don't be a paleotard...

                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...oxidation.html

                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...torage-qa.html

                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...rn-fat-qa.html

                http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...-you-need.html

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                • Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                  wow im getting confused...
                  so i always thought high-glycemic carbs, or a lot of carbs at once, raised insulin which then stored the carbs as fat easily because the body digests them faster. But some seem to say dietary fat, not carbs, are stored directly as fat. Then why is it you can get "skinny fat" eating a high-carb diet, but not so on a high fat diet?

                  Also, I'm speaking of a high-carb day once in a while where I can not care about my macro ratios as much, not as a lifestyle change. I have no insulin, diabetic, or metabolic issues and am not at all overweight.
                  What chima said is accurate. In addition, the statement that insulin stores carbs as fat isn't correct, either. What actually is happening is that when you ingest foods rich in glucose, it inhibits fatty acid burn. As a consequence, the dietary fat you consume along with the glucose is stored. Example: you eat a baked potato with butter. The starch elevates your blood glucose and there is an ensuing insulin rise. Glucose is burnt preferentially and the dietary fat from the butter is stored. Of course, nothing is 100%. You aren't burning 100% glucose and 0% fat, but the ratio is skewed heavily in glucose's favor to the point where FFA oxidation is relatively negligible versus a fasted state.

                  Of course, none of this matters if you aren't consuming a caloric surplus. If you ARE consuming a caloric surplus, though, it's the dietary fat being stored. Unless you're eating a nearly zero fat diet (>10% total daily calories), it's pretty much always the fat being stored.
                  Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                  • then if someone were to gain weight but ate a high-fat, high protein, and low carb diet, would they technically gain more body fat because the dietary fat is stored? because i always got the impression that someone on a high-carb diet (say, eating the same calorie excess) would gain more body fat

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                    • Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                      then if someone were to gain weight but ate a high-fat, high protein, and low carb diet, would they technically gain more body fat because the dietary fat is stored? because i always got the impression that someone on a high-carb diet (say, eating the same calorie excess) would gain more body fat


                      Skip to five minutes in to where he begins on caloric surplus and potential fat gain in a month.
                      Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

                      Fitocracy Workout Tracker:
                      https://www.fitocracy.com/profile/Shadowknight137/?feed
                      MFP Food Diary:
                      http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/Shadowknight137
                      (Date is New Zealand Time UTC+ 12hours)

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                      • Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                        then if someone were to gain weight but ate a high-fat, high protein, and low carb diet, would they technically gain more body fat because the dietary fat is stored? because i always got the impression that someone on a high-carb diet (say, eating the same calorie excess) would gain more body fat
                        Good question. We do not seem to have an answer. Hopefully one day we will know enough about cell biology to answer this.
                        For me "empirical answer" is not useful given the difficulty in controlling dietary experiments.
                        Few but ripe.

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                        • Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                          then if someone were to gain weight but ate a high-fat, high protein, and low carb diet, would they technically gain more body fat because the dietary fat is stored? because i always got the impression that someone on a high-carb diet (say, eating the same calorie excess) would gain more body fat
                          A high carb diet will fire up the metabolism more compared to a high fat diet with the same amount of calories, so the burn off/output will be somehow bigger. More energy will be wasted in production of heat and recovery processes so that will make a higher daily energy expenditure, so yes you will gain more on high fat...
                          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                          - Schopenhauer

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                          • Originally posted by Alfi56 View Post
                            then if someone were to gain weight but ate a high-fat, high protein, and low carb diet, would they technically gain more body fat because the dietary fat is stored? because i always got the impression that someone on a high-carb diet (say, eating the same calorie excess) would gain more body fat
                            Depends. So here is the crib notes version.

                            Studies of ad libitum eating tend to favor high fat lower carb for improved body composition.

                            Metabolic ward studies were calories are strictly monitored show little difference.

                            Resistance training is by far the variable that effects lean mass the most. That's either retaining it in a deficit or adding it rather than fat in a surplus.

                            Eating enough protein is the next most important in a deficit.....but you may not require as much in a surplus. This however is many degrees less important than resistance training.

                            That's about all that I think can be said without extreme bias. Some very interesting stuff in the IF arena though that's not covered here.

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                            • But say you wanted to gain weight through muscle; doesn't Mark say in his gaining muscle article to eat a lot of fat, while keeping insulin low? How to Gain Weight and Build Muscle | Mark's Daily Apple

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                              • Detailed explanation

                                Dr. Rosedale: The High Carbohydrate Diet and Related Health Problems - presented by Dr. Bass

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