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  • Fat, sick, and nearly dead

    Hi guys,

    To begin, I am 32, female, 325 pounds, and borderline diabetic. I recently watched the movie "Fat, sick, and nearly dead," which documents a fat man going on a 60 day juice fast. (He drinks only veggies and fruits he juices.) He has great results. So, being highly suggestible, I ordered a nice juicer immediately. But then I remembered you good people. Can someone explain why a primal diet is really better than a juice fast? Can juicing be a part of a primal diet? When I've done primal in the past, I've mainly stuck to high fat meets with veggies as an afterthought, and I never make it past the carb flu without giving up.

    I thank you in advance for your advice!

  • #2
    Welcome back, Heatherok. Good luck on your goal of reversing your diabetes.

    To me, the most obvious reason for choosing a primal diet over a juice fast is that you will be able to continue with it for the rest of your life of continually improving health while a juice fast is obviously a temporary measure.

    I don't know very much about diabetes but it seems to me that it would be a good idea to limit fruit at first as they are very high in sugars, and concentrate more on veges which are a very important source of nutrients. I don't see why you shouldn't eat primal meats and eggs and juice your veges if that will help you eat more of them while you are starting out. But in the long run it would be desirable to learn lots of delicious ways to serve them. Good luck.
    Annie Ups the Ante
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread117711.html

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    • #3
      Both works, sure, but it's up to you whether you want to drink your meals for the rest of your life or actually develop good habits that will be a sustainable lifestyle. That's what primal is: a lifestyle. Juicing is boring as hell. I like to eat and chew things, but that's just me. The thought of drinking my food for however long just makes me suicidal. It's a step up from tube feeding, IMO.
      F 28/5'4/100 lbs

      "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."

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      • #4
        You can get the "juice" of many more veggies from a juicer than what you could eat, and you tend to use a wide variety each time . But you don't get the pulp. That said, a good juicer will extract most of the cellular and inter-cellular fluids, so you get all the dissolved nutrients.

        I have a juicer and have enjoyed using it at times. Other times it sits in the cupboard. My suggestion would be that you use juicing as a supplemental addition to a really clean primal diet. For example, make juice and have fresh juice for B and take a 2 cup or more serving for lunch (pint mason jars work well for this - keep refrigerated and shake to reblend before drinking). Then have a good protein and fat rich supper (meat, vegetables, good fats). A few weeks of that as a kickstart, then maybe add in a second meal and reduce the juice to one large serving a day.

        When juicing, go easy on the high sugar fruits. One apple and 1-2 carrots are nice to add sweetness to a batch of juice, but the rest should be low sugar and high water content - celery, cucumber, tomatoes, peppers, cabbage, all sorts of greens (spinach, kale, chard, romaine, etc). You can add flavour and further nutrients by adding fresh gingerroot or fresh garlic clove, but experiment with caution- they are potent in their raw state.

        The two concepts are certainly not mutually exclusive. Good luck with your experimentation and congrats on taking control of your health!

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        • #5
          hiya heatherok,
          as a diabetic myself I'd say don't juice. With veggie juice youre turning a relatively slow to process carbohydrate into a much more accessible and quicker acting carb. with fruits youre turning a relatively fast to process carbohydrate into an immediately accessible one. These have profound negative effects on my glucose profile. the fibre also acts to fill you up but with juicing you lose the effect.
          Fatty meat has a negligible effect on glucose, and it is satisfying. Vegetables offer good nutrition, some carbs and variety and bulk in the gut.
          Id stay stick with the primal approach.
          As borderline diabetic a day comprising of high blood glucose spikes is not going to help your beta cells and a period of this could be really hard on them; you should be protecting them- after all they are all that's between you and diabetes.
          Avoid developing diabetes - it makes life a bitch.

          I've had excellent results on 6 weeks primal ,I've lost over 40lbs and have brought my blood glucose profile down to almost normal
          Last edited by CarbDodger; 05-27-2013, 04:49 AM.
          When I'd had enough of the grain and starched based 'diabetic eating for health' diet (eating for health, my ass!) my weight was 242.5 lbs. On starting primal- 18th April 2013 weight : 238.1.
          27th July 2013. weight after 100 days 136.9 weight lost 101.2lb ; that's 105.6lbs since I stopped the 'diabetic eating for health'
          new journal http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1264082

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          • #6
            You won't ever lose weight unless you change what's going on between your ears.

            I know that sounds harsh, but let's get down to the dirty. You might misplace it temporarily with a juice fast, but it will come back.

            Do you get why that is a ridiculous question? Juice for the rest of your life or whole, unprocessed meats, vegetables, fruits, and fats? How can you question that? I know, because you are desperate to lose weight. We fatties and former fatties can never, ever just "lose" weight. We will have to be diligent the rest of our lives. Primal is the easiest and most satisfying way I have found with the least amount of deprivation. However, there will always be times when we fatties have to say no.

            Girl, you have got to make a change. A real change. Carb flu is nothing compared to dialysis or losing a limb. Suck it up. Throw all the crap in your house away and go walk as far as you can today. Make a decent meal out of quality ingredients. Repeat over and over until you aren't obese anymore.

            I feel for you. It IS hard. But being fat is way, way harder. Been there, done that, work every day to stay in the medium t-shirt.

            You can do this.

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            • #7
              If you haven't read the book, I just you do so if you can get a hold of it. Your library may have a copy, but possibly have a long waiting list (mine does, bought my own).

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              • #8
                I use juicing as a part of my Paleo diet. Primal did not work for me all that great. So, I eat meats, eggs, fruit, nuts and vegetables, drink vegetable & fruit juices sometimes instead of meals, and aim to make absolutely everything from scratch (curing bacon, fermenting kimchi, mayo... you name it). If my grandma made it, I can make it. It gives me a peace of mind.
                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                • #9
                  Juicing can be a part of a primal diet. But like was already said, glucose control can be an issue with that much sugar at once. Once you juice a vegetable, even if its not known for being sugary, you greatly increase the load. Avoid the carb flu altogether. When planning your primal meals, make sure to get some carbs. You will likely find the amount of fruits, vegetables, starchy vegetables needed to stop the carb flu is pretty low. Coupled with walking and some other exercises, you should be seeing good benefits.

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                  • #10
                    If you have trouble with carb flu, I know this isn't "ideal," but there is a method recommended by Dr. Harris. You could try carrying around a bag of sliced oranges (for example) while transitioning to low carb, and if you're feeling crummy, you can have a few. When I first transitioned to low carb, the headaches were TERRIBLE. One night I completely cracked and had a restaurant deliver cheesecake to my house and I went to town. Obviously I didn't handle it well but, I'm good now. I wish I had done something more modest like fruit.

                    You could possibly use Harris' method with juicing? Maybe juice to transition to a paleo diet to help with low carb blood sugar swings. Note that high protein intake can bump your post-prandial blood sugar, so eating higher protein might help the transition as well.

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                    • #11
                      The body responds pretty quickly to dietary changes, so the results of ending the juice diet will be equal and opposite the results of starting the juice diet.

                      Temporary spasms aren't worth the anxiety IMO. Upgrading our nutrition is an ongoing process. Sometimes the steps are very small, sometimes we reverse a step that isn't working, but there's no need for weird extremes.
                      37//6'3"/185

                      My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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                      • #12
                        I bought a juicer, did it for a week- just juice- and then I had a pretty severe meltdown, mentally. I forgot that I don't function without meat. YMMV. I have used it since then, though, as a supplement to my regular diet.

                        If you're having a bad time with the carb flu, think more salad/sweet potato/squash instead of mostly meat. You don't have to go super low carb in order to reduce your carb intake (and increase your nutrient intake).
                        http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

                        Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

                        And now I have an Etsy store: CattailsandCalendula

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                        • #13
                          My husband and I watched Fat, Sick and Nearly dead and had the same response that you did...great results and seems pretty straight forward to do. We are both pretty average in health but could definitely shed some weight so decided to give it a go. I lasted 5 days on it before I reverted back to eating because as much as juicing provides you with the nutrients and vitamins you need, I missed the act of chewing and eating my meals. On day 6 I went back to eating, but had juice for 2 out of 3 meals and would eat a healthy primal dinner along with it. After 30 days, I had lost 15 lbs. My husband on the other hand has insane willpower and was able to do the whole 30 days of juicing!!! He found great success with his fast: 35 lbs in 30 days. Also, I should mention, before embarking on his fast he did consult with his doctor who actually gave great advice and gave him the green light but told him the most important part of a fast comes after juicing; it's super important you be careful what you put into your newly cleaned out system after you fast. After completing his fast, my husband gained back about 7lbs from starting to eat again which is totally normal. All in all, we both found that juicing gave us a good first step in revitalizing our bodies and getting a clean slate to start primal with. We'll continue to do a juice fast every 3 months for 5 days or so to 'Reboot' as Joe from FS&ND calls it. A big warning though which wasn't mentioned in the movie....if you do the juice fast, around day 2 you will discover a new found super-human ability to smell food a mile away! We did our fast at the end of April(aka BBQ season kick-off) and we could smell (and start salivating) the food more intensely then ever before, other people who have done this fast that I have talked to have experienced the same. Best of luck in your ventures, whatever you decide to do but just remember a juice fast is just a temporary thing, not a permanent diet.

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                          • #14
                            I'd say be careful with the juicing. Thats an awful lot of fructose for the liver to handle. If you're borderline diabetic, your liver is already insulin resistant. The most important point of that is that fructose, which is the sugar found in fruit, can't be processed like glucose. You see, glucose can be absorbed and utilized by any cell in the body immediately. Fructose, which is the sugar found in fruit, can only be processed in the liver. Especially being borderline diabetic, you would do yourself a much greater service by limiting your sugar intake and sticking to a good primal diet. The last thing you should be doing is jamming yourself with all that sugar. Do yourself a favor and watch this video.

                            Sugar: The Bitter Truth - YouTube

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                            • #15
                              A lot of vegetables are high sugar when made into juice. I have heard that carrot juice has more sugar than apple juice. Beet juice is also very sweet. They make sugar from beets, so that makes sense. So unless your juice is all celery and kale, you're going to be dumping huge volumes of pure sugar into yourself on a juice fast.
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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