Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Omega 6 deficiency?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I glanced at this post because a couple months back, I saw something on Paleohacks about LA deficiency posted by one of the more involved members (Travis Culp), but I never saw any references. I'd always heard that omega-6 was the devill more or less, so I wanted to see something to back up Travis's claims before I started eating nuts by the handful or whatever.

    I could only find short answers and comments from Travis on the subject, but here is a thread with some of the same arguments presented: Is there a minimum requirement of Omega 6 fatty acids? - PaleoHacks.com

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by dkJames View Post
      This is all finely said ... but between what you believe, or think had been debunked a long time ago, and a reference to some study, there is quite a gap. Not that I disagree with you but a pointer to some ref would be nice.

      By the way, a 0 fat diet is IMPOSSIBLE. Even fruits and plants have fat. If you eat like this crazy dude that ingests 30 bananas a day, you get your fat
      I realize a 0 fat diet is impossible for us, but it can be done in a laboratory setting. When they do these rat studies, they basically feed them refined oils and sugars fortified with vitamins and minerals.

      That's how they skew these "high fat diet = heart disease" studies. They take refined soybean oil, crush up vitamins in it, feed it to rats, they get atherosclerosis and put on body fat and they proclaim "high fat diets cause heart disease and obesity!" No buddy, refined high PUFA vegetable oils do. Do that same study with ghee or coconut oil and it probably will be remarkably different. Or, even scarier, use REAL FOOD high in fat, like egg yolks and bone marrow. But that wouldn't give them the result they want...sigh.
      Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 05-28-2013, 06:05 AM.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

      Comment


      • #18
        I don't think it's possible to be deficient in Omega 6 fatty acids on a diet of real food.
        Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Finnegans Wake
          I think we need to understand what "essential" means in this context. It means ONLY that it cannot be produced by the human body.
          I don't even think that is proven. I have yet to see any proof showing the human body cannot synthesize omega 3 and omega 6. As far as I'm concerned, this is one of those myths that everyone assumes is true but no one can prove.
          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

          Comment


          • #20
            This is a summary. Secondary information. It is essentially a textbook excerpt. I'm talking about an actual study - primary information - showing the human body cannot do this. The information that surrounds "EFA's" seem to be more myth than fact.

            Essential Fatty Acids - Essential fatty acids are, according to the textbooks, linoleic acid and alpha linolenic acid, and they are supposed to have the status of "vitamins," which must be taken in the diet to make life possible. However, we are able to synthesize our own unsaturated fats when we don't eat the "EFA," so they are not "essential." The term thus appears to be a misnomer.

            A Bioenergetic View of Serotonin: Inflammation, Osteoporosis & Pattern Hair Loss — The Danny Roddy Weblog
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Finnegans Wake
              Again, I am not referring to the term "essential" as meaning "being necessary for life." I am strictly holding it to mean that it cannot be synthesized.

              Humans lack the fatty acid desaturase enzyme needed for synthesizing EFAs. I'm not sure what a "primary study" would prove here. Are you looking for some lost tribe of humans that might possess the enzyme? Or looking for a different enzyme that might be able to create EFAs? I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding.
              Back many decades ago, the paint industry used these seed oils (soybean, safflower, linseed/flaxseed) and fish oils (largely menhaden and sardine oils) to make paint. Because they oxidized so quickly upon exposure to light, heat and air, they formed that nice shiny finish inherent to paints and stains. After World War II, industry was booming. During the 50's and 60's, petroleum products slowly started replacing the unsaturated oils in paint and parts lubricant manufacturing because they were so much cheaper. Soon, the seed oil industry had nowhere to push their product. It was at this time, I believe during the 1970's, where they started fabricating the war on cholesterol in order to replace traditional animal-based cooking fats with their toxic products. A study was crafted that showed omega 6 to be an "essential fatty acid" and causing a deficiency in it started killing all these lab rats. The "EFA" was coined. However, it was later shown the study was BS because it was repeated and simply supplementing B vitamins took away these effects.

              If you've looked at the composition of human breast milk, it is very low in PUFA overall. Hell, the placenta itself filters out PUFA while the baby is in the womb. Yet, a baby's brain is rich in DHA, even though breast milk lends a rather PUFA-deficient diet.

              I guess my point is, not only are omega 3/6 not "essential" as you stated, but I'm not convinced that we can't synthesize it. I understand the paragraph you quoted, but who determined we cannot synthesize omega 3/6? Surely, for that claim to be made in a textbook, someone at some point created a study that showed we cannot synthesize these fats. Well, I'm not convinced until I see said study(ies).
              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                I don't even think that is proven. I have yet to see any proof showing the human body cannot synthesize omega 3 and omega 6. As far as I'm concerned, this is one of those myths that everyone assumes is true but no one can prove.
                I will put this question to my nutrition lecturer...

                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                However, we are able to synthesize our own unsaturated fats when we don't eat the "EFA," so they are not "essential." The term thus appears to be a misnomer.

                A Bioenergetic View of Serotonin: Inflammation, Osteoporosis & Pattern Hair Loss — The Danny Roddy Weblog .
                He hasn't referenced this statement, I can't find it, he's just said it, where's his proof we can make our own unsaturated fats?

                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                Back many decades ago, the paint industry used these seed oils (soybean, safflower, linseed/flaxseed) and fish oils (largely menhaden and sardine oils) to make paint. Because they oxidized so quickly upon exposure to light, heat and air, they formed that nice shiny finish inherent to paints and stains. After World War II, industry was booming. During the 50's and 60's, petroleum products slowly started replacing the unsaturated oils in paint and parts lubricant manufacturing because they were so much cheaper. Soon, the seed oil industry had nowhere to push their product. It was at this time, I believe during the 1970's, where they started fabricating the war on cholesterol in order to replace traditional animal-based cooking fats with their toxic products. A study was crafted that showed omega 6 to be an "essential fatty acid" and causing a deficiency in it started killing all these lab rats. The "EFA" was coined. However, it was later shown the study was BS because it was repeated and simply supplementing B vitamins took away these effects.

                If you've looked at the composition of human breast milk, it is very low in PUFA overall. Hell, the placenta itself filters out PUFA while the baby is in the womb. Yet, a baby's brain is rich in DHA, even though breast milk lends a rather PUFA-deficient diet.

                I guess my point is, not only are omega 3/6 not "essential" as you stated, but I'm not convinced that we can't synthesize it. I understand the paragraph you quoted, but who determined we cannot synthesize omega 3/6? Surely, for that claim to be made in a textbook, someone at some point created a study that showed we cannot synthesize these fats. Well, I'm not convinced until I see said study(ies).
                This is interesting, again what proof do you have of this?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Don't eat poison. They use omega-6 oils to induce sterility and create inflammation in lab animals. Why would you eat them on purpose? I wouldn't worry about incidental, natural O-6 in fresh/sprouted nuts too much since such foods are so nutritious. But taking O-6 on purpose, why not just start taking little sips of antifreeze instead and speed things up for yourself?! :P
                  Crohn's, doing SCD

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by danhaych View Post
                    This is interesting, again what proof do you have of this?
                    Over the last thirty years I have asked several prominent oil researchers what the evidence is that there is such a thing as an “essential fatty acid.” One professor cited a single publication about a solitary sick person who recovered from some sickness after being given some unsaturated fat. (If he had known of any better evidence, wouldn't he have mentioned it?) The others (if they answered at all) cited “Burr and Burr, 1929.” The surprising thing about that answer is that these people can consider any nutritional research from 1929 to be definitive. It's very much like quoting a 1929 opinion of a physicist regarding the procedure for making a hydrogen bomb. What was known about nutrition in 1929? Most of the B vitamins weren't even suspected, and it had been only two or three years since “vitamin B” had been subdivided into two factors, the “antineuritic factor,” B1, and the “growth factor,” B2. Burr had no way of really understanding what deficiencies or toxicities were present in his experimental diet.

                    A few years after the first experiments, Burr put one of his “essential fatty acid deficient” rats under a bell jar to measure its metabolic rate, and found that the deficient animals were metabolizing 50% faster than rats that were given linoleic and linolenic acids as part of their diet. That was an important observation, but Burr didn't understand its implications. Later, many experiments showed that the polyunsaturated fats slowed metabolism by profoundly interfering with the function of the thyroid hormone and the cellular respiratory apparatus. Without the toxic fats, respiratory energy metabolism was very intense, and a diet that was nutritionally sufficient for a sluggish animal wouldn't necessarily be adequate for the vigorous animals.

                    Several publications between 1936 and 1944 made it very clear that Burr's basic animal diet was deficient in various nutrients, especially vitamin B6. The disease that appeared in Burr's animals could be cured by fat free B-vitamin preparations, or by purified vitamin B6 when it became available. A zinc deficiency produces similar symptoms, and at the time Burr did his experiments, there was no information on the effects of fats on mineral absorption. If a diet is barely adequate in the essential minerals, increasing the metabolic rate, or decreasing intestinal absorption of minerals, will produce mineral deficiencies and metabolic problems.

                    Although “Burr's disease” clearly turned out to be a B-vitamin deficiency, probably combined with a mineral deficiency, it continues to be cited as the basis justifying the multibillion dollar industry that has grown up around the “essential” oils.

                    Two years before Burr's experiment, German researchers found that a fat-free diet prevented almost all spontaneous cancers in rats. Later work showed that the polyunsaturated fats both initiate and promote cancer. With that knowledge, the people who kept claiming that “linoleic, linolenic, and maybe arachidonic acid are the essential fatty acids,” should have devoted some effort to finding out how much of that “essential nutrient” was enough, so that people could minimize their consumption of the carcinogenic stuff.

                    Between the first and second world wars, cod liver oil was recommended as a vitamin supplement, at first as a source of vitamin A, and later as a source of vitamins A and D. But in the late 1940s, experimenters used it as the main fat in dogs' diet, and found that they all died from cancer, while the dogs on a standard diet had only a 5% cancer mortality. That sort of information, and the availability of synthetic vitamins, led to the decreased use of cod liver oil.

                    But around that time, the seed oil industry was in crisis because the use of those oils in paints and plastics was being displaced by new compounds made from petroleum. The industry needed new markets, and discovered ways to convince the public that seed oils were better than animal fats. They were called the “heart protective oils,” though human studies soon showed the same results that the animal studies had, namely, that they were toxic to the heart and increased the incidence of cancer.

                    The “lipid hypothesis” of heart disease argued that cholesterol in the blood caused atherosclerosis, and that the polyunsaturated oils lowered the amount of cholesterol in the blood. Leaving behind the concept of nutritional essentiality, this allowed the industry (and their academic supporters, such as Frederick Stare at Harvard) to begin promoting the oils as having drug-like therapeutic properties. Larger amounts of polyunsaturated fat were supposed to be more protective by lowering the cholesterol, and were to be substituted for the saturated fats, which supposedly raised cholesterol and increased heart disease, producing atherosclerotic plaques in the blood vessels and increasing the formation of blood clots.

                    Since all ordinary foods contain significant amounts of the polyunsaturated fats, there was no reason to think that, even if they were essential nutrients, people were likely to become deficient in them. So the idea of treating the seed oils as drug-like substances, to be taken in large amounts, appealed to the food oil industry.

                    Fats and degeneration
                    I strongly recommend you read the whole thing. It is enlightening to say the least.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                      I strongly recommend you read the whole thing. It is enlightening to say the least.
                      Hmmm, I only understood maybe 75% of it... The last paragraph sounds funny, what does it mean?

                      I would like to give that info to my nutrition lecturer But using info from blogs isn't regarded highly in educational institutions.

                      But this info isn't dismissing any of the studies that show good results in certain diseases with supplemental fish oil? Just that in an otherwise healthy individual, the exclusion of "essential" FAs is not likely to result in disease because of it? If I start expressing my thoughts that EFAs essentiality is myth at college my lecturers will most likely tell me to go back and revise.

                      Because he hasn't really referenced efficiently how do we know that these seed oils were originally used in paint and the manufacturers needed to find a new market. A similar thing has occurred with aluminium production and its sodium fluoride by-product put in our water cos the right people were convinced it was healthy for us.
                      Last edited by danhaych; 05-29-2013, 02:30 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                        Surely, for that claim to be made in a textbook, someone at some point created a study that showed we cannot synthesize these fats. Well, I'm not convinced until I see said study(ies).
                        I suppose we could ask if you have tried searching for the study or if you're just going by what Peat says?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Really...even if I did believe omega-6 deficiencies is something to be concerned about, I don't think it's ever a huge problem. You're being overly concerned about nothing. As other posters have said, eat some nuts.
                          F 28/5'4/100 lbs

                          "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            I don't even think that is proven. I have yet to see any proof showing the human body cannot synthesize omega 3 and omega 6. As far as I'm concerned, this is one of those myths that everyone assumes is true but no one can prove.
                            I found this study done on infants denied linoleic acid and this one was sort of interesting done on a 6 year old who had a gun shot wound to the abdomen

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              If you've looked at the composition of human breast milk, it is very low in PUFA overall. Hell, the placenta itself filters out PUFA while the baby is in the womb. Yet, a baby's brain is rich in DHA, even though breast milk lends a rather PUFA-deficient diet.
                              Couldn't let this go unchallenged - Fatty acid composition of mature human milk in Germany.
                              Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                              Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X