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  • #31
    Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    I think this plus a realistic weight goal and a realistic decision on how long it will take to get there is CRITICAL. I was talking to a fitness competitor who spent much time well below the 20% body fat that people think is "fit". She mentioned most of those women have issues with pregnancy. We pondered that overweight women don't have the same struggle. I have no idea what she did to get where she got, but imagine a heaping helping of genetics plus diet, plus a lot of working out (she had surgeries for injuries).
    I think a lot of the reason why is the foods women choose to get so cut during their prolonged caloric deficits.

    Egg whites, oatmeal, chicken breast, protein powder, white rice...where exactly is the nutrition at? Yes, most will consume vegetables due to the filling nature and low calories, but one must wonder how many fat soluble vitamins are absorbed with such a low dietary fat intake (not to mention fat soluble vitamins in vegetables have a notoriously low conversion rate in the human body). If the same women cut to the same calorie level but ate whole eggs, leaner red meats, potatoes, fruit and fortified reduced fat (but not fat free) dairy, would they suffer from these effects as badly? That's the question.

    I wonder why beef liver consumption isn't urged in bodybuilding communities on a cut. It is the most nutritious food on Earth, and very low fat and low calories. A simple 4oz serving once a week could maybe cure some of these issues.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    • #32
      I think a lot of the reason why is the foods women choose to get so cut during their prolonged caloric deficits.
      I think women were not meant to be "cut" period. Plenty of malnourished women, drug addicted women, obese women and unhealthy women get pregnant. I'm sure they are less "nourished" than a lean athlete.

      My sister in law eats a really normal diet, but low body fat from doing Ironmans made it hard for her to get pregnant until the second time around when she had on a few extra pounds and got pregnant immediately.

      Certainly, excess fat is not good for women, but I think our bodies really think that a lack of fat is a really bad thing and even shut down certain processes to preserve it. Fighting to get fat that our bodies need to reproduce off of use is going to be really hard for most women to the point of damaging systems. Sucks that needed fat accumulates in bad places though.

      http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
      Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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      • #33
        I was told that gaining weight will help me get pg. I was at about 122-125 lbs at the time, maybe 25% BF. I gained real easy (like I always do) 10 lbs, to 135 lbs, and it did nothing except I walked around for a year with those 10 extra pounds... and now my body keeps trying to get back into the higher range all the time, while before pg I maintained at 118-125 range depending on how much I watched the scale. I wish I have not listened to this advice, but that ship has sailed and I find the brain doesn't work all that great when you are ttc and can't.

        In my case I am pretty sure it was BCP, rather than weight or BF%. I am sure athletic women also tend to take a lot of supplements, BCP etc so they get no surprises, so that might screw up more than low BF, unless BF is so low menstrual cycle gets disturbed.
        Last edited by Leida; 05-28-2013, 07:18 AM.
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        • #34
          Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
          I think women were not meant to be "cut" period. Plenty of malnourished women, drug addicted women, obese women and unhealthy women get pregnant. I'm sure they are less "nourished" than a lean athlete.
          I totally agree that today's image of "what a woman should look like" is way off the mark. A woman should probably look like 22-25% body fat, not the 17-19% body fat plastered on magazine covers. However, I do believe the human body is more resilient than some here give it credit. I don't believe females are these fragile creatures that fall apart at first sign of a prolonged caloric deficit. If so, the human race would have gone extinct millennia ago due to regular bouts of famine. I think it's largely the foods people do their cuts on. An 8 week 25% caloric shouldn't be debilitating when 3 month caloric deficits of 50% or more were probably frequent during winter months. Again, I think a lot of it has to do with the nutrient-poor foods and powdered supplements people in the fitness community tend to cut on.

          Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
          My sister in law eats a really normal diet, but low body fat from doing Ironmans made it hard for her to get pregnant until the second time around when she had on a few extra pounds and got pregnant immediately.
          Was it low fat? Or low nutrient/high anti-nutrient? A diet of egg whites and oatmeal is not equal to a diet of lean red meats, potatoes and fruits. Most traditional societies eat a fairly low fat diet. We come from equatorial regions where lean game meats, fruits and starches rule. We are not descendents of cold-climates. People tend to forget that human emigration to cold climates is neolithic.

          Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
          Certainly, excess fat is not good for women, but I think our bodies really think that a lack of fat is a really bad thing and even shut down certain processes to preserve it. Fighting to get fat that our bodies need to reproduce off of use is going to be really hard for most women to the point of damaging systems. Sucks that needed fat accumulates in bad places though.
          I agree that it's probably healthier to be 15 lbs overweight than 15 lbs underweight.
          Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 05-28-2013, 07:43 AM.
          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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          • #35
            I started primal 3 weeks ago and I lost 8 1/2 pounds that first week and I urinated ALOT so I would agree this could be water weight. Weight loss is much slower now but I am keeping it off

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            • #36
              A diet of egg whites and oatmeal is not equal to a diet of lean red meats, potatoes and fruits.
              It was SAD. Think cheerios and a triple mocha whip latte. Spaghetti. Cookies. She did eat some meat. No fish, lots of chicken.

              http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
              Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                It was SAD. Think cheerios and a triple mocha whip latte. Spaghetti. Cookies. She did eat some meat. No fish, lots of chicken.
                Yea, see that is not a fair critique of a low fat diet. That would be like comparing a low carb diet to Atkins pars, sawdust tortillas and Splenda.
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                • #38
                  Yeah, I dunno. My point was that she eats the same thing as women that get pregnant easily and due to too low body fat (genetics and activity) had some fertility issues. I mean thousands of welfare mamas are not eating lean protein, fruits and vegetables. They are malnourished but with plenty of fat.

                  http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                  Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                  • #39
                    At the time I ate plenty of vegetables and fruit, and while I stayed relatively low fat, we had meat/fish/poultry daily and I ate eggs almost daily, and had no idea egg whites existed as a separate food group. Not O3 eggs, but still. I did not eat oatmeal daily back then as I did later when trying to lose weight and hit the 70% carb/<15% protein intakes.
                    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                      Yeah, I dunno. My point was that she eats the same thing as women that get pregnant easily and due to too low body fat (genetics and activity) had some fertility issues. I mean thousands of welfare mamas are not eating lean protein, fruits and vegetables. They are malnourished but with plenty of fat.
                      I think the general case that increased body fat increases the chance of fertility is because, generally, overweight people are better nourished than underweight people. However, clearly, that isn't always the case as you can be both overweight and malnourished. IMO, this all comes down to nutrient density of one's diet. A lean person that consumes a nutritious diet can easily be better nourished and more fertile than an overweight person that consumes mostly empty calories (grains, refined sugars and fats, etc).
                      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                      • #41
                        I think the general case that increased body fat increases the chance of fertility is because, generally, overweight people are better nourished than underweight people.
                        Yeah.... that makes sense especially because processed foods are often "enriched with vitamins and minerals" where your body builder is eating a limited selection of whole foods.

                        http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                        Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                          Yeah.... that makes sense especially because processed foods are often "enriched with vitamins and minerals" where your body builder is eating a limited selection of whole foods.
                          Unfortunately, protein powder still rules the bodybuilding world, oatmeal is still the #1 consumed carb and they're still throwing away the egg yolks or buying those disgusting cartons of liquid egg whites. Gross. Does the average bodybuilder have a better diet than the average American? Probably. They're not choking down lots of pizza, chicken alfredo, doughnuts and TV dinners, but it's still low in fat soluble vitamins and high in weird powders and pills that I swear the only weight loss they cause is in your wallet!
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Owen View Post
                            The short answer is that some sources of calories cause more fat gain than others.

                            1) Glucose from sugars and refined grains are immediately stored as fat by the body. The more complex carbs, or proteins, are not.

                            3) If you are lifting weights, the calories contained in protein will be used in building muscle mass and therefore cannot be used to accumulate fat.
                            Really? Those are some of the more ridiculous things I've ever read.

                            Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                            I think women were not meant to be "cut" period. Plenty of malnourished women, drug addicted women, obese women and unhealthy women get pregnant. I'm sure they are less "nourished" than a lean athlete.

                            My sister in law eats a really normal diet, but low body fat from doing Ironmans made it hard for her to get pregnant until the second time around when she had on a few extra pounds and got pregnant immediately.

                            Certainly, excess fat is not good for women, but I think our bodies really think that a lack of fat is a really bad thing and even shut down certain processes to preserve it. Fighting to get fat that our bodies need to reproduce off of use is going to be really hard for most women to the point of damaging systems. Sucks that needed fat accumulates in bad places though.
                            Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                            Yeah, I dunno. My point was that she eats the same thing as women that get pregnant easily and due to too low body fat (genetics and activity) had some fertility issues. I mean thousands of welfare mamas are not eating lean protein, fruits and vegetables. They are malnourished but with plenty of fat.
                            Every female is different in respect to how much body fat she needs to have in order to be fertile as well. Also, stress (physical and mental) also plays a role in fertility.

                            Originally posted by Leida View Post
                            At the time I ate plenty of vegetables and fruit, and while I stayed relatively low fat, we had meat/fish/poultry daily and I ate eggs almost daily, and had no idea egg whites existed as a separate food group. Not O3 eggs, but still. I did not eat oatmeal daily back then as I did later when trying to lose weight and hit the 70% carb/<15% protein intakes.
                            Low fat diets are horrible for fertility.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by NDF View Post
                              Really? Those are some of the more ridiculous things I've ever read.
                              Good lord, I thought I was the only one. Absolute paleotarded rubbish.


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                              • #45
                                Low fat diets are horrible for fertility.
                                While I doubt I was <30-35% fat, since I was not watching anything back then, and was able to have a dessert after supper
                                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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