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  • #16
    Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    Oh, people have non-primal foods a lot more than may seem obvious. And a lot of people have weird ideas of cheat foods that really are fine to eat- fruit comes to mind. I think foods you need to avoid come down to you and your body.

    My "primal foods" are any fruit, meat, cream, butter, coconut milk and vegetable except for regular potatoes.
    My "not primal, but I'm not that concerned foods" are cheese (I don't eat much of it), rice and potatoes. I don't eat rice and potatoes often at all.
    My "this isn't primal but screw it" list includes milk chocolate, primal baked goods, maple syrup, sugar in my coffee on occasion and good ice cream. I also know this list can make me fat and I'd call this the list that is most of my 20%. I eat from this list once or twice a week. I f i was not trying to lose weight, I might consume this list more frequently.
    My "yeah, this isn't primal and is probably going to make me feel like crap list" includes a bun for a burger, a really awesome pastry or cake, alcohol and meals eaten out fall in this list. At this point, I'm not going to eat Chips Ahoy or Domino's Pizza. But yeah, I just ate an eclair from the french bakery near me. I don't call it cheating. I call it enjoying something on occasion that is really well made and special. To be fair it doesn't make me feel like crap.

    That said, yes, when I first started Primal eating something like an eclair would trigger wanting to binge on crap. Now it doesn't.
    This has been very helpful. Thank you very much. Nice blog as well!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Primal-V View Post
      One final thing - don't ever feel that you have to explain yourself to other people if you 'cheat' there is only one person you are answerable to when it comes to health, and that's yourself. (I'm still working on this one.)
      Amen. I see a few folks caught in this cycle of pleading to others for permission and ignoring the look-and-feel results.
      37//6'3"/185

      My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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      • #18
        Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
        My "primal foods"
        My "not primal, but I'm not that concerned foods"
        My "this isn't primal but screw it"
        My "yeah, this isn't primal and is probably going to make me feel like crap list"

        That said, yes, when I first started Primal eating something like an eclair would trigger wanting to binge on crap. Now it doesn't.
        Hah! Good way to break it down, magnolia. And yes, it is important to point out that what you can handle once fully set in your Primal groove is not always the same as when you are adapting. Some things actually get worse (e.g. alcohol, IME. Can't tolerate the stuff as well now.)

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        • #19
          Strive for 100% compliance. Accept that some situations or ingredients will be out of your control 20% of the time. If 92% of what goes in your mouth is primal, yay for you. If the best you can do one particular week is 64%, don't sweat it. Get back on plan at the next eating opportunity.

          If you're going to focus on numbers, you need to define what 'primal' means to you. Is it 'grocery store meat, fat, and veggies' or is it grass feed beef, pastured eggs, organic home grown veggies, and lard you rendered from your own pig? Dairy or no dairy? How do you feel about the dreaded potato? What about fruit? Plan on giving up beer and whiskey? Supplements?

          Sometimes you'll eat 'on plan' sometimes you don't. Planned binges = why even bother.
          Sandra
          *My obligatory intro

          There are no cheat days. There are days when you eat primal and days you don't. As soon as you label a day a cheat day, you're on a diet. Don't be on a diet. ~~ Fernaldo

          DAINTY CAN KISS MY PRIMAL BACKSIDE. ~~ Crabcakes

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          • #20
            After a year of Primal being as clean as I possibly could I decided to have some ice cream. I got my favorite flavor -- mint and chip -- and got it from a place that uses only top-quality ingredients. I got a small. I could not finish it. This absolutely floored me. Striving for 100% has its benefits.
            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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            • #21
              Nope. Most of us don't count that exactly. You make it sound like primal is a punishment whether we have to count out our exact celebratory meals. It's a guideline and gives wiggle room. That's all.
              F 28/5'4/100 lbs

              "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."

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              • #22
                Just do the math: diet accounts for 80% of your success. If you are following the 80/20 approach, then 80% of 80% primal adherence means an effective primal coefficient of .64. On the other hand if you are looking a 20% cheat rate on diet, the impact is reduced to 16%, assuming that exercise, sleep etc. Is at 100% rather than 80%. If exercise is off, then the calculus gets a bit more complicated.

                Or you could just take the approach that 80/20 is a rough guideline to not let perfect be the enemy of good.

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                • #23
                  The 80/20 guideline works for a lot of people but you need to consider what the 20 percent is. If it's CAFO and occasional vegetable oil in a restaurant meal then you'll be getting good results. If its all doughnuts, then you might not be quite so good. (To use two extreme examples)

                  It can be very helpful though as a way of stopping people from becoming obsessive, because as we know, obsessive periods of dieting usually end with the return of old habits.
                  Healthy is the new wealthy.

                  http://www.facebook.com/groups/ances...handnutrition/

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Owen View Post
                    It can be very helpful though as a way of stopping people from becoming obsessive, because as we know, obsessive periods of dieting usually end with the return of old habits.
                    That's the take away on this one. Nicely said, Owen.
                    The Champagne of Beards

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                    • #25
                      I find for me that if I give myself ANY lee-way in my mentality, then it turns into a slippery slope which eventually ends in a more 20/80 style of eating.

                      So I have a very strict no grains, no legumes, no processed foods deal and when I absolutely can't resist my cravings will eat a pizza or whatnot then go right back on.

                      This, for me, is the only way to make it work.

                      Planning cheat meals/cheat days ahead of time just leads me to think "well, I'm going to cheat tomorrow, so it won't hurt to cheat today." And then that leads to "well I already cheated yesterday, so might as well just have another pizza today."

                      It all depends on the individual I suppose.

                      And I've found after eating really strict primal for a year every time I do cheat now I realize how unfulfilling that cheat meal is and it makes it much easier to resist the next time. Pizza/pasta has really lost its appeal. They don't taste that great and leave me bloated and lethargic. No thanks!

                      So don't think that it will be a neverending battle against your cravings. Over time your habits will change, your tastes will change, and you'll find that you want the junk less and less.
                      Spreading the Paleo/Primal message to gamers through my website: http://www.thehealthygamer.com
                      Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/HappyJacksChannel

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                      • #26
                        100% is complete anal perfection which as we know is also a complete 100% chronic stress condition which effectively negates any benefits of the primal concepts.

                        The optimal goal is 100% in all primal areas including diet, exercise, daily movement, stress reduction, fun, mental stimulation, social engagement, etc., all the while knowing that realistically there are compromises to be made and even within the primal sphere some of the goals may be competing, so you find a healthy balance somewhere less than 100%, only you can judge what that is.

                        A primal couple fully in agreement will have a different ideal set point to say a mother of 5 non primal kids and non conforming husband.
                        The healthiest point is the place that gives the greatest nutrition for the lowest degree of stress, this point will be different for each individual, so arbitary measures become irrelevant.
                        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by JackJones View Post
                          Planning cheat meals/cheat days ahead of time just leads me to think "well, I'm going to cheat tomorrow, so it won't hurt to cheat today." And then that leads to "well I already cheated yesterday, so might as well just have another pizza today."

                          It all depends on the individual I suppose.
                          Yep, I can back up the individual part. For me, when I know I am likely to be engaging in a cheat meal of some sort, I am likely to be stricter in the days leading up to eat, eating as clean as I can, maybe cutting back calories a bit, sometimes even fasting beforehand for a day or so.

                          Then I do my best to enjoy the meal and get right back on track ASAP.
                          "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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                          • #28
                            "These days my 'treats' are mostly primal, like spending hours making a fabulous beef rendang (if you haven't tried this, google 'Rick Stein beef rendang recipe' and try it - it's regarded as one of the world's most delicious foods for a reason!)"

                            Holy Cow! ...that's a lot of ingredients! - but I have to make on your review alone . Thanks

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                            • #29
                              So don't think that it will be a neverending battle against your cravings. Over time your habits will change, your tastes will change, and you'll find that you want the junk less and less.
                              I think this is true. I can't remember the last time I wanted pizza. Or bread. Or anything that is "processed". I think it's kind of a "Rite of Passage" to have pizza, cupcakes, McDonalds or whatever and eat it and be like..."Oh, that tastes like shit". It's good once your palette changes to try the things you think you miss.

                              In terms of planning cheat meals... I don't do per se, but I'm dining out tonight and want to enjoy my meal (ie, I don't want grilled chicken on a salad), so I know I may end up with some non-primal foods. I won't get pizza but might end up with say, a pork chop with polenta or having a few bites of dessert. And after this, I'll probably eat very clean for a few weeks, like I have the last few weeks.

                              It takes a while to work this all out and there is no one answer. I do think if you "schedule" a cheat meal once a week and get the mindset of "I suffer thru primal meals to make it to pizza day", you will never make this a lifestyle. My mindset is more "I love primal foods, but you know what, today I want a bun for my burger" and "Mmmm, date night, duck over polenta looks great". To me, it's occasional variety and enjoying food, not so much about "cheating and deprivation".

                              http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                              Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                              • #30
                                I imagine Mark put it in there not to alienate people. But in practice it doesn't work, for reasons people have already mentioned.

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