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  • #16
    Right, the key is that one banana satisfies you, but the issue rises when one apple lead to more berries to another apple... and the OP mentioned sweet trigger, so that's probably not the case for her.

    As for nutritional stuff, iirc the fruit of today is nutritionally poor, and is also a bad thing for digestion, skin, hunger/sugar balance for those sensitive to fructose. Nuts, on another hand, do not trigger and can be eaten very slowly and have rare micros in 'em that fruit does not, are the best source of Ca if you don't eat dairy, and you don't wake up the next morning with red volcanoes around your chin & your nose...

    So, very individual.

    Ideally, both fruit & nust should go of course, in favor of meat and greens.
    Last edited by Leida; 05-21-2013, 09:51 AM.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Leida View Post
      Note the volumes of nuts, seeds and cheese. That's basically a good 500+ calories already. Depending on the amount of fat she added to coffee, eggs and chicken, and the weight of the breast, she can easily be 1,300-1,500 cals which is normal for her low weight.
      Thank you this is true... I was about 1500 calories. If I felt like I was deprived at all I would take the advice to eat more but since I am feeling like I am more than satisfied (other than the nausea or heart palpitations after I eat) I think its the right amount for me.

      "Yeah...that's the other thing that looks off. I'd eliminate those and replace with meat, veg and fruit/starch calories."

      Just curious why... I adore nuts and nut-butters so I'd like to know if there is anything wrong with my daily consumption.


      "Anyway, if you continue on low carb you'll probably continue to feel kind of weaker and slower for a while, then you'll adjust and start feeling pretty good. If you add back some carbohydrates on days you lift weights or sprint you'll get your energy back. Slow running actually works really well on low carb because you can train your body to use its own fat for energy which becomes an endless supply. No hitting the wall, no bonking. It's a secret weapon a lot of ultramarathoners employ. They train low carb and race higher carb."

      SO funny you say this. This is how I feel and it is so new to me. I run for speed. I like to get things done, (esp house work) quick and over with. I feel like I cannot run fast anymore and when I am working around the house cleaning/gardening I feel like I can go on forever but I am only moving at mosey pace.

      Before PB I trained on low carb but had a protein bar and a small amount of grain during the day and then always carb up for races and feel great. Now with no grain and no refined sugar I am struggling to run. Do you think I'll get my pace back in a couple of weeks when I'm in fat burning mode OR do I have to re-think my exercise on PB and move toward a long and slow run?

      Thank you again.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
        To me, a couple spoons of almond butter bring not a lot to the table. Have some extra chicken and a banana.
        Try Barney Butter... OMGOODNESS!!!! I love love love dark chocolate and would have to say it is neck and neck with Barney Butter.

        Oh and the reason why I am eating this way is because of my symptoms. It was recommended that I eat high fat most of all. Otherwise I agree nutrient dense is better.

        sorry for the edits : )
        Last edited by JULIEQUICKrunner; 05-21-2013, 09:59 AM.

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        • #19
          Generally it is recommended to keep intake of nuts and seeds under 2 oz a day. Nuts/seeds have the same antinutrients problems attached to them as grains and legumes, though less painful on digestion. At the very least they should be soaked and dried at a low temp.

          Nuts are top of the list as allergens, and even though you might not collapse, they can still impact your system causing low level inflammation and all the bad things associated with it.

          A lot of people have an issue with nuts being a 'domino' food, so they can't stop at a reasonable amount, so it causes weight gain.

          You can carb up pretty good on Paleo foods, i.e. tubers. You can go to 150-300 g of carbs if you train and race on athletic performance level.
          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
          When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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          • #20
            Oh and the reason why I am eating this way is because of my symptoms.
            What are your symptoms (beyond the standard no more sugar crappy feelings)?

            I feel like the more you restrict healthy foods, the harder time you will have. Like fruit.... Seriously, if you binge on a banana, apple, a cup of berries and an apricot that is still fewer calories than a handful of nuts and a few tablespoons of nut butter. Eating 4 or 6 or 8 pieces of fruit is much different than eating a bag of snickers or a plate of cookies. Yeah, I guess if you binge on fruit every day it might be bad, but the more likely thing is you binge a couple of times and then you have a normal amount of fruit in your diet.

            That said if there is a specific reason to do ketosis (I know someone here does it to control seizures), you probably do need to learn to not eat fruits in large amounts.

            http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
            Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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            • #21
              Originally posted by JulieRUNS View Post
              Before PB I trained on low carb but had a protein bar and a small amount of grain during the day and then always carb up for races and feel great. Now with no grain and no refined sugar I am struggling to run. Do you think I'll get my pace back in a couple of weeks when I'm in fat burning mode OR do I have to re-think my exercise on PB and move toward a long and slow run?

              Thank you again.
              Originally posted by JulieRUNS View Post
              Oh and the reason why I am eating this way is because of my symptoms. It was recommended that I eat high fat most of all. Otherwise I agree nutrient dense is better.
              What are your symptoms, and why do you feel the need to eat such a low carb diet? The reason you're struggling to run is not because you've cut out grains and refined sugar. It's because you've cut those things and have not replaced them with healthy primal carbs (such as tubers). Is there a specific reason why you're doing a low carb diet (you mentioned symptoms)?

              I'm not sure how fast you normally run, but at a very fast pace, you will need carbs. It's possible to train your body to run at a moderate intensity on high fat low carbs, but if you're going at a high intensity, you will need carbs. This is because it simply takes too long to burn fat for fuel so at high intensities you're going to have to burn glycogen.

              If you like to run fast, there is no reason to give that up in order to pursue a super low carb diet, unless you have a medical condition that requires it.

              My journal

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              • #22
                Sometimes I'll have half a banana with a spoonful of almond butter for breakfast. This might be on a day when I wake up very early to go to the gym but I'm already hungry. It's just enough to allow me to make it to lunch sometimes.

                But if I'm at home and I decide I'll grab a handful of almonds before dinner, it invariably turns into two or three handfuls. Same if I decide to grab a bag of mixed nuts at work. I promise myself I'll have only a few but end up eating the entire 600 calorie bag while still wishing there were more.

                And another thing, whenever I go hiking on the weekends my belly gets SOOO FAT it's unbelievable. Same thing happens if I go running. I don't know what causes this. If I just keep it to light walking and weight lifting with a little of this jumping around stuff or sprinting I seem better capable of keeping a smaller belly. On days I go hiking I won't measure myself. It's too depressing.
                Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                • #23
                  Leida, that really stinks for me that I can only 2oz of nuts but good info to know. I am wondering if I get the heart palps after I eat the nutbutter. I will definitely watch that now.

                  Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                  What are your symptoms (beyond the standard no more sugar crappy feelings)?

                  I feel like the more you restrict healthy foods, the harder time you will have. Like fruit.... Seriously, if you binge on a banana, apple, a cup of berries and an apricot that is still fewer calories than a handful of nuts and a few tablespoons of nut butter. Eating 4 or 6 or 8 pieces of fruit is much different than eating a bag of snickers or a plate of cookies. Yeah, I guess if you binge on fruit every day it might be bad, but the more likely thing is you binge a couple of times and then you have a normal amount of fruit in your diet.

                  That said if there is a specific reason to do ketosis (I know someone here does it to control seizures), you probably do need to learn to not eat fruits in large amounts.
                  Besides feeling very weak - especially days I exercise - I have been getting nauseated or heart palps after I eat. Not every single time I eat but definitely everyday. My chest feels heavy. I feel very vulnerable, I guess the "low carb flu", where I can't take when the kids scream. That is when I researched and found that I need to eat huge amounts of fat - that Dr on the proteinpowder.com website (daily apple link) says eat chicken skin with slabs of butter under it - basically go crazy fat. So I am doing this starting yesterday - the symptoms are not from the tons of fat.


                  The reason why I am so low carb is because I am sugar sensitive so I am forced (even before PB) to stay clear of sugar even fruit. It will set me up for a binge and when I am in that mode there is no holding back. If I am feeling overwhelmed or having an emotional day and eat sugar I will end of eating ice cream or oreos. If I do not have any sugar I do not even think about it.

                  Another thing, I know that I have tons to learn here but I thought this is what I'm supposed to do. No grain, no sugar - only veggies, nuts, meat, fish and berries. Simple guidelines to follow and that's what I liked about it. What's with fruit now, I didn't think that is part of this PB?

                  "I'm not sure how fast you normally run, but at a very fast pace, you will need carbs. It's possible to train your body to run at a moderate intensity on high fat low carbs, but if you're going at a high intensity, you will need carbs. This is because it simply takes too long to burn fat for fuel so at high intensities you're going to have to burn glycogen."

                  Yes I run fast... good to know.


                  Here is a question: What are tubers?!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by JulieRUNS View Post
                    Here is a question: What are tubers?!
                    Root vegetables. Potatoes, sweet potatoes, turnips, etc.

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                    • #25
                      Did you read the PB? The man has a whole list of fruits to eat. It is a part of the PB, a bigger part of it than ketosis.

                      I love sugar. I used to have epic sugar binges. But really, the extra fat and protein, coupled with not being allowed to eat crap like oreos has controlled that without needing to give up fruits. Additionally, going gluten free really smashed any cravings for baked goods. Otherwise.... I guess try potatoes or rice or something to get you enough carbs to be as active as you want to be.

                      The Best Low-Carb Fruits (and the Worst) | Mark's Daily Apple

                      •0-50 grams per day: Ketosis and I.F. (Intermittent Fasting) zone. Excellent catalyst for rapid fat loss through I.F. Not recommended for prolonged periods (except in medically supervised programs for obese or Type 2 diabetics) due to unnecessary deprivation of plant foods.


                      Read more: The Primal Blueprint Diagrams | Mark's Daily Apple

                      http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                      Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                        Did you read the PB? The man has a whole list of fruits to eat. It is a part of the PB, a bigger part of it than ketosis.

                        I love sugar. I used to have epic sugar binges. But really, the extra fat and protein, coupled with not being allowed to eat crap like oreos has controlled that without needing to give up fruits. Additionally, going gluten free really smashed any cravings for baked goods. Otherwise.... I guess try potatoes or rice or something to get you enough carbs to be as active as you want to be.

                        The Best Low-Carb Fruits (and the Worst) | Mark's Daily Apple

                        •0-50 grams per day: Ketosis and I.F. (Intermittent Fasting) zone. Excellent catalyst for rapid fat loss through I.F. Not recommended for prolonged periods (except in medically supervised programs for obese or Type 2 diabetics) due to unnecessary deprivation of plant foods.


                        Read more: The Primal Blueprint Diagrams | Mark's Daily Apple
                        No, I didn't read it. I signed up for the e-book but never got it so I've been reading the heck out of all his articles since I have so little energy do what I should be doing.

                        Thank you for the links!

                        According to that carb curve it looks like I shouldn't be too much over 50 tho if I want to lose weight. The closer to 100 grams the darker it gets. The darker it gets you are leaning toward weight gain.
                        Last edited by JULIEQUICKrunner; 05-21-2013, 11:38 AM.

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                        • #27
                          Don't put too much faith into the carb curve. To be honest, fearing carbs makes as little sense as fearing fats. The emphasis is on the non-processed foods that doesn't do harm to your system, vitality and happiness. Experiment & get better!
                          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                          When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                          • #28
                            I think you are misinterpreting.

                            I believe the under 50 grams is for very overweight people, 50-100 is weightloss (I find this to be true) and 100-150 is maintenance (I also lose in this range if I keep calories in check). Weight gain is over 150.

                            I have tried ketosis and never go past feeling like crap and in terms of weight loss, never saw a benefit. I always felt off kilter and depressed. Lots of people do fine living in ketosis, and I don't think you can tell until you have tried it for a while. The downside is putting up with feeling like crap for a while. It seems like the people for whom ketosis works, it REALLY works great.

                            http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                            Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                            • #29
                              You weigh 118 pounds and you want to lose a pound a day?
                              How tall are you? 3'7"?
                              5'0" female, 45 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Gained back to 115(!) on SAD chocolate, potato chips, and stress. Currently 111.

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                              • #30
                                Sorry, I forgot to share, that recently I have found avocados in a form of home-made guacamole to be a sort of answer to my predicament of fibre-fat-nuts-fruit. I am also working on kimchi being my stand in for fruit (so far did not develop the habit).
                                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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