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The 80/10/10 Diet by T. Colin Campbell (The China Study)

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  • #46
    Originally posted by YogaBare View Post
    Lol - so true!

    1) I'm not losing weight - what am I doing wrong?
    2) Carbs vs Fat
    3) Carb flu / sugar cravings
    3) I can't sleep / have no energy / feel like I'm about to die (Oh, and I happen to be eating VLC.)
    4) Ketosis
    5) CICO
    6) The latest fad (iodine / steak and eggs / cold water therapy / potato diet etc)
    7) Binging
    8) Bullet proof coffee
    9) Argument about some foodstuff or other
    10) Evil insulin

    Am I forgetting anything?
    11) How to fast for maximum benefit

    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Chupo View Post
      I don't have cold hands or feet but my body temperature is usually 97.2 when low carb. It's textbook 98.6 when I'm high carb. Anyway, lower body temperature is associated with longevity in centenarians and calorie restricted animals. The same is true for thyroid hormone.
      BS. Your life cycle is your metabolic rate. There are no studies on this at all. There is crude epidemiology, but all that shows is that people that eat less unhealthy food live longer. There is no proven causation between caloric restriction and longevity. There is only causation proven between metabolic derangement and obesity and disease. And a low body temperature is a metabolic derangement.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
        It isn't in terms of restriction. However, it's actually more efficient at producing energy. People in paleo circles think carbs are bad because their perception of how they feel on carbs is Snickers, Doritos and pasta. The funny thing is, most of the foods that are considered "carbs" (pizza, ice cream, cake, cookies, brownies, potato chips) are much higher in fat than they are in carbs. Look at the nutrition facts on all those things - pizza, ice cream, Oreos, Herrs potato chips...they are all higher in fat than carbs.

        Yes, grain flour fortified with soybean oil is very, very bad. In fact, it's probably the seed oils making you feel worse than any of the toxins in the grains. 80% carbs from potatoes, apples, sweet potatoes, mangoes and bananas probably won't make you feel bad. It'll probably make you feel awesome. In addition, consuming lower fat ranges in the 10-30% range where the fat is restricted to incidental fats from ruminant meat and dairy and the rest of the energy coming from carbs from fruits and starches is probably most ideal since fruit and starch convert mostly to SFA and some omega-9 MUFA in the body. It's the ultimate low-PUFA diet, and that's what's really killing us. Polyunsaturated fat is the neolithic agent of disease. The problem I see with grains lies with gluten grains and their inherent nutrient deficiencies. Personally, I minimize grain consumption due to nutrient density, but I'm open to masa and white rice here and there. PUFA oils I avoid like the plague.
        Awesome post Choco! I agree 100 percent

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        • #49
          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
          BS. Your life cycle is your metabolic rate. There are no studies on this at all. There is crude epidemiology, but all that shows is that people that eat less unhealthy food live longer. There is no proven causation between caloric restriction and longevity. There is only causation proven between metabolic derangement and obesity and disease. And a low body temperature is a metabolic derangement.
          Centenarians also smoked.

          The common factor these Centenarians and Supercentenarians all share
          Make America Great Again

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          • #50
            The "your" was after you quoted me but perhaps you dont understand how that works.

            I have not told you much about my diet so once again you are making judgmental comments when you don't have a clue.

            If you want to cook the shit out of your veg then I think you need to go to a cooking school.

            Who said I wasn't eating oysters, fish, wild game, dairy etc I gave an example of one typical dinner plate, that good fat could easily be part of a lovely cream sauce. Once again you are making silly assumptions without any basis in fact.

            Please provide any evidence that we need the high sugar diet you are defending here. If you are happy to base your science on what Mark says then please go ahead, I prefer to go to other authoritative sources which show the many many benefits if a lower carb diet.

            There is no pseudo-science in eating a diet full of whole natural nutritionally dense foods but if you think there is please support that with some kind of evidence to show that kind of diet is bad for you.
            Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
            PS
            Don't forget to play!

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            • #51
              You're setting the goal post in the opposite direction, and now I have no idea what point you're even making. I apologize for making assumptions about your diet. I assume you're low carb?

              Carb level is individual, I never advocated this diet, just debated against the opposite extreme of this diet. If you see my diet consists of high protein and carbohydrate. I feel no one should be on a prolonged VLC diet, there is more than one way to cook an egg, as I learned in my cooking school.
              Make America Great Again

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                The Kitavans smoke like chimneys yet have no incidence of cancer. They eat very high starch diets low in protein and very low in fat. It's probably hard to develop cancer when your PUFA intake is nearly 0% of total calories.

                Even living in the tropics, there are many possibilities for diets rich in signal-disrupting substances, including iron, and in high latitudes there are opportunities for reducing our exposure to them. As a source of protein, milk is uniquely low in its iron content. Potatoes, because of the high quality of their protein, are probably relatively free of toxic signal-substances. Many tropical fruits, besides having relatively saturated fats, are also low in iron, and often contain important quantities of amino acids and proteins. In this context, Jeanne Calment's life-long, daily consumption of chocolate comes to mind: As she approaches her 121st birthday, she is still eating chocolate, though she has stopped smoking and drinking wine. The saturated fats in chocolate have been found to block the toxicity of oils rich in linoleic acid, and its odd proteins seem to have an anabolic action.

                http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/alzheimers2.shtml
                It makes me wonder if the epidemiology that correlates fish with health happens to be because it is warm water fish in tropical areas. Warm water fish is typically very low in fat, and all that fat from coconut and palm kernels would easily offset it. Remember those pigs fed a tropical diet at Weston A. Price? They had something like 65% SFA in their tissues with almost no PUFA. It made beef fat look unsaturated. How do I get me some coconut fed pork??
                Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 05-22-2013, 08:57 PM.
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                  The Kitavans smoke like chimneys yet have no incidence of cancer. They eat very high starch diets low in protein and very low in fat. It's probably hard to develop cancer when your PUFA intake is nearly 0% of total calories.
                  I agree completely(I smoke like a chimney too). There is no relation to cigarettes and cancer, and in their context I believe that it was nothing but beneficial to their long life spans. Low PUFA, clean air, plenty of carbohydrates for stress response, and no arsenic in the tobacco or plants they eat.

                  I think nicotine is life promoting, and I'll keep smoking until I see concrete evidence otherwise. I stand far more of a chance to die by breathing in this polluted air than I do smoking organic rolled tobacco.
                  Make America Great Again

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Dirlot View Post
                    Please provide any evidence that we need the high sugar diet you are defending here.
                    I'm going to go ahead and cherry pick this one sentence.

                    What you should have is an overall low PUFA diet. However, modern foods being the way they are, it rules out a lot of paleo foods. Not much fatty poultry, fatty pork, fatty fish, nuts or avocado. Ruminant meats, grassfed dairy, some eggs and coconut are fair game, but you have to get your calories from somewhere. In order to minimize PUFA, the best way is to overall cut fat from your diet. Since you need to get your calories from somewhere, fruit and starch are the logical choices. Glucose is, simply put, a superior fuel to fat. It is a much more efficient fuel source than fat, it is easier for the body to process, it better supports your thyroid function and due to the way the body converts glucose into fat in times of excess, it stores mostly as saturated fat with some monounsaturated fat.

                    The problem with your post is you put sugar in the context of being bad. Well, it's superior to fat, and you need your energy from somewhere.

                    I could just as easily say "Please provide any evidence that we need the high fat diet typical to MDA."
                    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 05-22-2013, 09:07 PM.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                      The Kitavans smoke like chimneys yet have no incidence of cancer. They eat very high starch diets low in protein and very low in fat. It's probably hard to develop cancer when your PUFA intake is nearly 0% of total calories.



                      It makes me wonder if the epidemiology that correlates fish with health happens to be because it is warm water fish in tropical areas. Warm water fish is typically very low in fat, and all that fat from coconut and palm kernels would easily offset it. Remember those pigs fed a tropical diet at Weston A. Price? They had something like 65% SFA in their tissues with almost no PUFA. It made beef fat look unsaturated. How do I get me some coconut fed pork??
                      I don't think it's based on much, tbh. Just bad science.

                      I think prolonged feeding of coconut and stuff would make the pig too skinny, no? Maybe fatten them up with milk or something else low in PUFA.
                      Make America Great Again

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                        I agree completely(I smoke like a chimney too). There is no relation to cigarettes and cancer, and in their context I believe that it was nothing but beneficial to their long life spans. Low PUFA, clean air, plenty of carbohydrates for stress response, and no arsenic in the tobacco or plants they eat.
                        You will not ever, ever, ever get me to smoke. We don't live on Kitava segregated from the rest of the world in a comparatively protective bubble. We don't have clean air. We don't have clean water. We have cellular and radio towers everywhere. Thousands of satellites orbit above us blasting us with God knows how much radiation. The foods we buy are regularly cross-contaminated with pesticides. We store our foods in plastics. There is literally an infinity of variables you cannot compensate for. Regardless of the PUFA content of your diet, cigarettes have been proven over and over again to be highly mutagenic. It is absolutely foolish to smoke in 100% of all cases, and even if you don't develop cancer, you still have to deal with the fact that you stink, your breath stinks, your teeth are yellow, the majority of the public hates your second-hand smoke and you piss away countless dollars on something that gives you absolutely nothing positive in return.

                        Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                        I think nicotine is life promoting, and I'll keep smoking until I see concrete evidence otherwise. I stand far more of a chance to die by breathing in this polluted air than I do smoking organic rolled tobacco.
                        Smoking for health is like fucking for virginity.
                        Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 05-22-2013, 09:13 PM.
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                          I don't think it's based on much, tbh. Just bad science.

                          I think prolonged feeding of coconut and stuff would make the pig too skinny, no? Maybe fatten them up with milk or something else low in PUFA.
                          Even lean pigs are still fatty. I can't buy fatty cuts of pork because they're so fatty they're off-putting. I enjoy pork loin and smoked pork shoulder because the smoke over hours melts the fat off. Pork fat is so gelatinous in its consistency it turns my stomach. If we can breed leaner pigs with super high SFA iand super low PUFA in their tissues I'm all for it.
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Saying that all warm water fish is low fat is just naive... plenty of trop warm water fish that can be fished on/near beaches are as fatty and even fattier than cold water fish.

                            Pompano is about equal to cod... you can catch those right in the surf.
                            And ever hear of wahoo? 14 grams of fat per 3oz. Also a prized catch. The Hawaiian word for this fish, ono, has become ubiquitous throughout the culture to refer to all things Delicious!
                            You can catch those in inlets out of a kayak/small primitive boat in tropical coastal places around the world.
                            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Derpamix View Post

                              I think nicotine is life promoting, and I'll keep smoking until I see concrete evidence otherwise. I stand far more of a chance to die by breathing in this polluted air than I do smoking organic rolled tobacco.
                              oddly, i actually agree with this.

                              the benefit of living in a clean-air environment is the fact that your lungs can heal. Smoking good tobacco (or other plants) for their drug effects (which is no different than, say, caffeine consumption or even sugar (sugar high!) consumption) and the positive influences of those isn't really the problem if one has the option of breathing clean air and has a healthy diet and other risk factors taken care of or can counter-balance the bad stuff.

                              I'm not *advocating* smoking per se, but I dn't think that it is "the cause" of lung cancer so much as it can be "part of a series of causes" that might lead lung cancer. Other lung diseases are another matter besides.

                              Clean air, free of as many pollutants as possible, has been shown (i'll look for the study) to completely reverse all kinds of lung damage and disease. Amazing, really.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                                How do I get me some coconut fed pork??
                                Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                                I think prolonged feeding of coconut and stuff would make the pig too skinny, no? Maybe fatten them up with milk or something else low in PUFA.
                                Not coconut, but here's an organic pig farm in south africa that raises a particular breed of little piggies on their natural diet: acorns. Oak Valley

                                South Africa is ahead of the game with this food stuff.
                                "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

                                In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

                                - Ray Peat

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