Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

HCG, IF and Ketosis - the Unholy Trinity of Metabolic Downregulation

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
    Hi Knifegill. Yeah, I don't understand why someone else being happy and successful seems to be so threatening to some people.
    Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
    You speak like someone with blinders on. It's one way or no way, right!?

    Not really. We're omnivores, designed to be able to digest and put to use a plethora of different food groups. You eat 99.5% fat because you're otherwise a sick person, are you not? Though I may or may not agree with your choice of methods, if he were healthy, he'd be able to eat carbs just fine like everyone else. Ratios can vary here, not asking him to eat like me, I know the thresholds for tolerance are different.

    But, of course, he feels soooo good on VLC, let's just ignore the other symptoms, despite it really being an abnormal(and for all evidence, and purposes, not primal) way of eating in the first place.

    To end it though, it's his choice to eat how he wants, just like it's my choice to smoke 2 packs of cigarettes a day and drink like a fish over losing a hockey game. Free will and all that. So, I respect his choice to make use of whatever time he has on this planet in whatever way he wants. If he just happens to be addicted to eating fat, then more power to him. I hate people who tread on this, I'm just keeping it real and telling it how it is. It's not healthy, and these posts are designed to bring that to light for anyone else attempting this fad diet for the sake of weight loss and just happen to feel miserable. It's not for everyone, and it's not abnormal that you feel bad.
    Wow. All Knifegill, Neckhammer, eKatherine, many others, and I have said is that we feel great eating the way we do. Why is our happiness problematic for you? Nobody has said this is the only way and everyone else must do it too. What paranoid reality do you inhabit?

    I do not eat 99.5% fat. My macros are roughly 75/20/5 f,p,c. I am extremely well nourished and healthy by all medical biomarkers and my ability to climb mountains. If I eat a bunch of sugar, I get seizures. That is just how my brain is wired. I am healing that over time using this diet and using less medication. Just try to call that unhealthy.
    Knifegill turned himself around from a chubby, zit covered, limping mess into the hot young stud he is today with this diet. Why does that bother you?

    If you choose to trash your body with drugs, booze and cigarettes and then doll out health advice, go right ahead. I just hope that people consider the source before following your advice. Could you climb the world's tallest freestanding mountain without dropping in a wheezing heap by the trail? Not for very long if you keep poisoning yourself. I really don't care what macros you eat. The "Avoid Poisonous Things" part of the PB seems to be missing for you.

    Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Actually Knife does eat fruits and such.... if I remember his experiment correctly it was when he attempted to make them the focus or majority of his diet it produced issues. I don't know how that can be considered unhealthy. Its biochemical individuality. Could be his epigenetics from his great-grandparents through the time in the womb made him this way, or all the way to his ancestors, or his gut biome from birth till now produces the effect. Whatever it is all we really need to do to validate our decision regarding his diet (or yours for that matter), at least this is in my estimation, is to find a group/civilization of HG or traditional peoples enjoying abundant health that live in a manner close to that which we have adopted. Easy right?

    Basically we are all unhealthy/imperfect just as a function of being born into this society. We just have to make due with the tools we are given.
    Yes, Knifegill and I both eat fruit. I doubt there are any HGs living primarily on sugar, nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, and psychotropics, however.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      Wow. All Knifegill, Neckhammer, eKatherine, many others, and I have said is that we feel great eating the way we do. Why is our happiness problematic for you? Nobody has said this is the only way and everyone else must do it too. What paranoid reality do you inhabit?

      I do not eat 99.5% fat. My macros are roughly 75/20/5 f,p,c. I am extremely well nourished and healthy by all medical biomarkers and my ability to climb mountains. If I eat a bunch of sugar, I get seizures. That is just how my brain is wired. I am healing that over time using this diet and using less medication. Just try to call that unhealthy.
      Knifegill turned himself around from a chubby, zit covered, limping mess into the hot young stud he is today with this diet. Why does that bother you?

      If you choose to trash your body with drugs, booze and cigarettes and then doll out health advice, go right ahead. I just hope that people consider the source before following your advice. Could you climb the world's tallest freestanding mountain without dropping in a wheezing heap by the trail? Not for very long if you keep poisoning yourself. I really don't care what macros you eat. The "Avoid Poisonous Things" part of the PB seems to be missing for you.
      Knifegill's body is soft, judging by his pictures. He also states he's around 18-20% bodyfat. I don't know what his face looks like or anything else, so can't say anything here.

      What happens to you if you eat another way? Why do you have to turn this into something so personal? I already said idgaf how you, or anyone else eats. I'm just stating my own opinion on the matter, given facts. If you're offended by it, don't project, gives off this sort of "I'm not as well off as I say I am" kinda vibe.

      And, yeah, I'm pretty sure I can. I'm in great shape, whether you want to accept it or not. I swim, I bike ride, I sprint, I take really long uphill walks, I even lift heavy things all day long. I don't hack up my lung. I estimate my bodyfat at around 8~10%. I can post a picture for you if you want? All this while eating "poisonous" substances.

      I've been smoking off and on for quite a while too, btw.
      Last edited by Derpamix; 05-13-2013, 12:12 PM.
      Make America Great Again

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
        Wow. All Knifegill, Neckhammer, eKatherine, many others, and I have said is that we feel great eating the way we do. Why is our happiness problematic for you? Nobody has said this is the only way and everyone else must do it too. What paranoid reality do you inhabit?

        I do not eat 99.5% fat. My macros are roughly 75/20/5 f,p,c. I am extremely well nourished and healthy by all medical biomarkers and my ability to climb mountains. If I eat a bunch of sugar, I get seizures. That is just how my brain is wired. I am healing that over time using this diet and using less medication. Just try to call that unhealthy.
        Knifegill turned himself around from a chubby, zit covered, limping mess into the hot young stud he is today with this diet. Why does that bother you?

        If you choose to trash your body with drugs, booze and cigarettes and then doll out health advice, go right ahead. I just hope that people consider the source before following your advice. Could you climb the world's tallest freestanding mountain without dropping in a wheezing heap by the trail? Not for very long if you keep poisoning yourself. I really don't care what macros you eat. The "Avoid Poisonous Things" part of the PB seems to be missing for you.

        Yes, Knifegill and I both eat fruit. I doubt there are any HGs living primarily on sugar, nicotine, caffeine, alcohol, and psychotropics, however.
        I don't care about anthropology one bit, it's not going to do me any good living in a fantasy land full of historical inaccuracies and fallacies. I'm living in the now. Things are a lot different. I choose to attempt to go beyond whatever my biological makeup and ancestors laid out for me.

        If I want a story, I'll read a book.
        Make America Great Again

        Comment


        • Pb, what mountain did you climb.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Zach View Post
            Pb, what mountain did you climb.
            Kilimanjaro I assume(tallest mountain)
            Make America Great Again

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
              Knifegill's body is soft, judging by his pictures. He also states he's around 18-20% bodyfat. I don't know what his face looks like or anything else, so can't say anything here.

              What happens to you if you eat another way? Why do you have to turn this into something so personal? I already said idgaf how you, or anyone else eats. I'm just stating my own opinion on the matter, given facts. If you're offended by it, don't project, gives off this sort of "I'm not as well off as I say I am" kinda vibe.

              And, yeah, I'm pretty sure I can. I'm in great shape, whether you want to accept it or not. I swim, I bike ride, I sprint, I take really long uphill walks, I even lift heavy things all day long. I don't hack up my lung. I estimate my bodyfat at around 8~10%. I can post a picture for you if you want? All this while eating "poisonous" substances.

              I've been smoking off and on for quite a while too, btw.
              I think Knifegill looks pretty darn hot, especially compared to where he came from. Have you seen his before pic?

              You told me I'm "a sick person" and you wonder how I might take that personally?

              And yes, you might be able to get up a mountain now when you are in your 20s but I doubt you can keep up the chemical abuse of your body and still be able to do it at 50 like I did.

              Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
              I don't care about anthropology one bit, it's not going to do me any good living in a fantasy land full of historical inaccuracies and fallacies. I'm living in the now. Things are a lot different. I choose to attempt to go beyond whatever my biological makeup and ancestors laid out for me.

              If I want a story, I'll read a book.
              I'm not into Grok re-enactment much either. I was just responding to NH's comment about HGs. The full title of Nora Gedgaudas' book is "Primal Body, Primal Mind. Beyond the Paleo Diet for Total Health and a Longer Life".

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
                I don't care about anthropology one bit, it's not going to do me any good living in a fantasy land full of historical inaccuracies and fallacies. I'm living in the now. Things are a lot different. I choose to attempt to go beyond whatever my biological makeup and ancestors laid out for me.

                If I want a story, I'll read a book.
                Ah, so you don't live in the past but you make presumptions about the future which is just as much fantasy based on an incomplete understanding of our working physiology. Or not. Who knows.

                It doesn't really matter. As you've said, and I agree, totally up to the individual. I don't care if you smoke, chug, and shoot. It's your life. But I do find the idea of how each of us determine what information is most "real" interesting. Its often a combination, but I do notice that Peat followers are very much into the biochemical and physiological theory without muddying the waters with ancestral data... Dunno if this is because it simply does not fit the Peat model or because they are looking to surpass any previous civilization in health and longevity with an all new way.

                I suppose for myself I lean more on data gathered about healthy societies due to our limited understanding of physiology and biochemistry. I don't care how smart a fella is.... nobodies got it all figured out yet. I don't think there is a lifestyle that leads to "super health" (unless its in comparison to a relative state of not healthy) and I don't buy into much of the LEF stuff. We all age and die. Aging well is all I'm looking for.
                Last edited by Neckhammer; 05-13-2013, 12:42 PM.

                Comment


                • This was posted in another thread but it was a fascinating experiment. Worth a read in the context of this discussion.

                  Two Brave Men Who Ate Nothing But Meat for an Entire Year

                  A new term I learned today is Keto-adapted. Apparently if you have been eating a VLC mostly meat diet for an extended period you becom Keto-adapted and your urinalysis would not indicate any ketone bodies because the body would be maintaining homeostatis, using ketones for fuel and not overproducing them. Apparently meat-only eating, keto-adapted humans will be utilizing ketones for fuel in their body (ie, be in ketosis medically speaking) but urinalysis will not show excess ketone bodies.
                  Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

                  https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Zach View Post
                    In my experience and the experience of many others, it is a disaster. I think its much safer on high carb.

                    Also im 30, hardly young. I had horrible blood sugar regulation after a few years of low carb, close to diabetic. I bounced back from that greatly. So again, i was not naturally gifted in this regard.

                    We will never agree on any if this, no point in arguing.
                    This is just a question, and I hope this isn't prying, or taken the wrong way...but...did whatever experience you had with your blood sugar cause you to come on a low carb forum to talk about eating a lot of carbs? I'm not saying you're trolling, I'm just wondering the motivation of being here (At the top it says, "Primal Living in the Modern World") is all.

                    Seems that there would be PLENTY of forums to have a journal, post a lot on, gain friends, etc. where the focus is somewhat similar to yours.

                    Of course, as Kennedy said in a famous speech, support and opposition are both necessary (The Very Word Secrecy is Repugnant). Maybe you provide the opposition?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                      Ah, so you don't live in the past but you make presumptions about the future which is just as much fantasy based on an incomplete understanding of our working physiology. Or not. Who knows.

                      It doesn't really matter. As you've said, and I agree, totally up to the individual. I don't care if you smoke, chug, and shoot. It's your life. But I do find the idea of how each of us determine what information is most "real" interesting. Its often a combination, but I do notice that Peat followers are very much into the biochemical and physiological theory without muddying the waters with ancestral data... Dunno if this is because it simply does not fit the Peat model or because they are looking to surpass any previous civilization in health and longevity with an all new way.

                      I suppose for myself I lean more on data gathered about healthy societies due to our limited understanding of physiology and biochemistry. I don't care how smart a fella is.... nobodies got it all figured out yet. I don't think there is a lifestyle that leads to "super health" (unless its in comparison to a relative state of not healthy) and I don't buy into much of the LEF stuff. We all age and die. Aging well is all I'm looking for.
                      Even if paleo is as perfect a portrayal of or paleolithic ancestors as we can get. Heres why its completely pointless to try and mimic them. Just like you said earlier, we are born into a completely differet environment then our ancestors. The effects of all the environmental toxins has changed us and we can no longer function the same way on the same types of foods. Maybe in the past it would have been best fasting, eating lower calorie foods (veggies) and doing lots of low impact long distance cardio. Now though, our needs have changed and things like fasting, eating unprocessed foods and endurance exercise are stressors and the way to overcome those is to eat highly digestible foods, try to bring up our thyroid and metabolic function as best we can and stay well nourished while trying to avoid toxins. This is why a Peat diet is so much more effective for us then a whole foods, low carb, ancestral diet is.

                      Not saying that table sugar and orange juice is better then steak and yams, just trying to say they we are not our ancestors and eating like them seems to cause just as many problems for some as eating a CW diet. Also not everyone is as crippled from toxins as others and this is not universal. It is becoming more and more of a concern and a focus on thyroid and metabolic health would seem to be smarter then just trying to eat like a caveman.

                      Wrote this on an iphone and its a pain to edit so hope it makes some sense.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jackaaron View Post
                        This is just a question, and I hope this isn't prying, or taken the wrong way...but...did whatever experience you had with your blood sugar cause you to come on a low carb forum to talk about eating a lot of carbs? I'm not saying you're trolling, I'm just wondering the motivation of being here (At the top it says, "Primal Living in the Modern World") is all.

                        Seems that there would be PLENTY of forums to have a journal, post a lot on, gain friends, etc. where the focus is somewhat similar to yours.

                        Of course, as Kennedy said in a famous speech, support and opposition are both necessary (The Very Word Secrecy is Repugnant). Maybe you provide the opposition?
                        I have ate primally/paleo/low carb for years. I have done it all from all forms of IF to complete carnivory. Yes i am here to provide a reality check.

                        Comment


                        • @ Zach

                          I just think its a matter of magnitude or perception or whatever. I see where a simple diet of very digestible foods would be beneficial.... I just see it as the minority of people that require this while the majority can and should thrive on relatively whole foods in a state close to what our ancestors and/or a current day HG tribe may eat them. Obviously you would flip that to the majority needing the special diet and a minority in todays society thriving on the "primal" diet. I can't say I agree with you on the percentages. But oh well. I've never had a "this diet wrecked me" moment. I've been cruising along so my experience obviously gives me a different outlook.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Zach View Post
                            I have ate primally/paleo/low carb for years. I have done it all from all forms of IF to complete carnivory. Yes i am here to provide a reality check.
                            Hey, that's cool. I'm all for the other side since I like to present it quite often myself.

                            I think it would be highly stressful for me to go from eating at 6am, 9am, 11:30a, 6pm, and maybe a few things later to one time a day. Stressful maybe isn't the word....impossible maybe?

                            But, I'm inching back a half hour a day, and it's only been 27 days, so, so far this is cake. When I finally get there, maybe I'll have a different attitude, but I REALLY like the way PK has laid out the whole idea behind IF.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by jackaaron View Post
                              This is just a question, and I hope this isn't prying, or taken the wrong way...but...did whatever experience you had with your blood sugar cause you to come on a low carb forum to talk about eating a lot of carbs? I'm not saying you're trolling, I'm just wondering the motivation of being here (At the top it says, "Primal Living in the Modern World") is all.

                              Seems that there would be PLENTY of forums to have a journal, post a lot on, gain friends, etc. where the focus is somewhat similar to yours.

                              Of course, as Kennedy said in a famous speech, support and opposition are both necessary (The Very Word Secrecy is Repugnant). Maybe you provide the opposition?

                              I'm a newbie yet, but I did'nt think primal meant low carb neccessarily? For maintenance Mark recommends up to 150 carbs a day? Could someone clarify please-thanks!
                              *Sara*

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                                @ Zach

                                I just think its a matter of magnitude or perception or whatever. I see where a simple diet of very digestible foods would be beneficial.... I just see it as the minority of people that require this while the majority can and should thrive on relatively whole foods in a state close to what our ancestors and/or a current day HG tribe may eat them. Obviously you would flip that to the majority needing the special diet and a minority in todays society thriving on the "primal" diet. I can't say I agree with you on the percentages. But oh well. I've never had a "this diet wrecked me" moment. I've been cruising along so my experience obviously gives me a different outlook.
                                I think we agree more then you think. I have never advocated that everyone needs to eat a high carb diet. It is completely individual and besides restricting seed oils, tons of excess fats, plant seeds and fiberous material, pretty much eat how you feel best. The only time i ever comment on here is when givig advice to someone whos current way is not working. Other ls just feel the need to antagonize me and i get painted as the sugar fiend.

                                Example, i was helping a few women whos current low carb diets werent working and we figured out a more reasonable diet that was lighter on the added fats, adding in a bit more of their favorite foods that were taboo, usually fruit and staying away from the higher omega 6 foods like nuts and factory pork and poultry. Hardly an extreme change but it had major effects on their energy, sleep and mood.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X