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HCG, IF and Ketosis - the Unholy Trinity of Metabolic Downregulation

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  • #46
    There appears to have been multiple migrations into the America's, the first was by distinctly caucasoid and this was likely along the traditional coastal route which is under water and then later migrations were by those that had already inherited some asian features.

    There is no evidence of boats, but I do wonder when you have a species that is making quite intricate tools, has needle and thread, knows how to produce glues from plant material, surely over a good 30ky hanging around water, they could swim and someone observed how things floated in the water, I suspect personally that primitive boats and rafts have been around through the majority of our period out of Africa.
    An interesting find was stone tools on Crete dating back to around 170kya, even at the highest glaciation period crete was never connected by a land bridge, then there is the Issue of Australian aboriginals that were already there 50kya and the only feasable option was boats, hard to imagine an entire tribe decided to swim 10-20 k's multiple times just to see if there was any food over there.
    So even with a lot of ice in NA & Canada, you can still do a lot of exploring by boat, I really don't think we give them enough credit.
    "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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    • #47
      And what are your credentials, Zach?
      Starting Weight: 197.5
      Current Weight: 123
      Far healthier!

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Zach View Post
        Nora Gedgaudas is just another VLC pushing quack. Shes a freakin nutritional therapist.
        Hence by deduction, through the use of your descriptor style, Ray Peat & Danny Roddy are Sugar Junkies.
        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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        • #49
          Oh boy another carb war with Zach.
          Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Zach View Post
            Nora Gedgaudas is just another VLC pushing quack. Shes a freakin nutritional therapist.
            She is a medical practitioner in neurofeedback. No, she's not an MD, so what? Her nutritional counseling is to help her neurologically challenged clients. And it works.

            At least she can read an anthropology textbook. You might try that sometime.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              She is a medical practitioner in neurofeedback. No, she's not an MD, so what? Her nutritional counseling is to help her neurologically challenged clients. And it works.

              At least she can read an anthropology textbook. You might try that sometime.
              Yay for neurologically challenged people. What does that have to do with evolution and ketosis which was the original question i responded to that you glossed over.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Zach View Post
                Yay for neurologically challenged people. What does that have to do with evolution and ketosis which was the original question i responded to that you glossed over.
                You were dissing her book because you said she was "only" a nutritional therapist. You were wrong about her. I corrected you. Not that tough to follow but perhaps the guy who thinks Cro Magnon were farmers might get confused.

                In this medical practitioner's very well written and researched book, she lays out the migratory patterns of early humans and the climatic conditions (all scientifically verified data points, not speculation) and clearly shows that the majority of our evolution as humans has taken place during severely cold weather conditions. Severely cold climate = not much plant life= mainly animal products diet.

                Did I go too fast for you?

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  You were dissing her book because you said she was "only" a nutritional therapist. You were wrong about her. I corrected you. Not that tough to follow but perhaps the guy who thinks Cro Magnon were farmers might get confused.

                  In this medical practitioner's very well written and researched book, she lays out the migratory patterns of early humans and the climatic conditions (all scientifically verified data points, not speculation) and clearly shows that the majority of our evolution as humans has taken place during severely cold weather conditions. Severely cold climate = not much plant life= mainly animal products diet.

                  Did I go too fast for you?
                  No, i was responding to MEversbergs question about evolution and ketosis. You brought up her book and i called her what she is and nowhere did i use the word "only". My comment about what does that have to do with MEversbergs question was in response to your reply that she deals with neurologically challenged people (you).

                  Really not that hard, try to keep up.

                  As for the majority of our evolution being in severely cold climates, thats just complete bull. Listen PB, i know your personality and facial features may suggest a hard life in the arctic but im quite certain not you or anyone else here has Inuit ancestry.

                  Now what about the original question. Would these ancestors living in severely cold climates be in ketosis or would that not be possible without downing sticks of butter and lard?

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                  • #54
                    Quick question. Would not significant caloric deficit even in the presence of "excess" protein lead to a ketotic state? Seems likely to me. That may not have much to do with what is being discussed now, but there were some thoughts on harsh environments and the need for lots of fat to be ketotic.

                    I've never tried measuring my ketone levels so I don't really have an N=1 to tell me what protein does at different levels when I'm LC.

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                    • #55
                      There is a reason why people naturally gravitate towards warmer tropical climates. It's ideal for sustaining of all life. Have you forgotten there can be no life without the sun? Ketosis = darkness, stress, winter, opposite of the sun. You age terribly due to that fact(Jimmy Moore anyone?)

                      Ketosis symbolizes starvation; the human body is resilient and does not want to die so easily, so it gives you all these neat tricks in order to keep you alive a little longer. It's not meant to be anything other than that though, and no one has ever proved otherwise. Random trials and abstracts that show the benefits of ketones does not prove the benefits of ketosis and until something shows me that beyond a shadow of a doubt ketosis is superior for longevity, beauty, cognition, I'll keep eating like a "hummingbird".
                      Make America Great Again

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                      • #56
                        If they're only eating one major meal per day, then fat metabolism is already activated,
                        Even lean animals have quite a bit of fat if you eat the whole animal, marrow, brain, skin etc., which they most certainly did.
                        If pickings are slim, plant wise, minimal fruits & tubers and they had to rely on edible vegetable matter, which is fermented in the lower intestine to short chain fatty acids.
                        Then highly likely they would be in Ketosis even in a warm climate without the aid of butter or lard.

                        Even though their overt intake may be lower in fat, this is compensated by the aditional fat derived from bacterial fermentation of vegetable fibres.
                        This makes me wonder about mountain gorillas who ean mostly leaves and grass, which is low in sugar content anyway, do they experience ketosis.
                        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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                        • #57
                          You can be in ketosis without eating extra fats. You can be in ketosis with eating nothing at all.

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                          • #58
                            Being in ketosis means the body is using fats as a fuel source, be it dietary or body fat. So to answer the question, yes you can be in ketosis without downing sticks of butter and/or lard.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Omni View Post
                              If they're only eating one major meal per day, then fat metabolism is already activated,
                              Even lean animals have quite a bit of fat if you eat the whole animal, marrow, brain, skin etc., which they most certainly did.
                              If pickings are slim, plant wise, minimal fruits & tubers and they had to rely on edible vegetable matter, which is fermented in the lower intestine to short chain fatty acids.
                              Then highly likely they would be in Ketosis even in a warm climate without the aid of butter or lard.

                              Even though their overt intake may be lower in fat, this is compensated by the aditional fat derived from bacterial fermentation of vegetable fibres.
                              This makes me wonder about mountain gorillas who ean mostly leaves and grass, which is low in sugar content anyway, do they experience ketosis.
                              High PUFA fat intake is a good way to make a stressful state even more stressful.
                              Make America Great Again

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by MarissaLinnea View Post
                                Being in ketosis means the body is using fats as a fuel source, be it dietary or body fat. So to answer the question, yes you can be in ketosis without downing sticks of butter and/or lard.
                                I believe he meant nutritional ketosis, like longterm Inuit style. If your consuming your body or eating nothing, that is starvation and yes its similar to nutritional ketosis but i dont think exactly the same.

                                Omni, what about PB's hero, "Bear" Owsley who was convinced that glycogen from fresh animals would knock you out of ketosis? Seems like almost all meat would have been eaten fresh, wonder what kind of carb load that would be.

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