Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Confused!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Confused!

    Hi

    Posted this earlier on Jack Kruse site, thought I'd share my thoughts here too.

    Recently Iíve been doing a lot of reading, books and internet articles on diets etc. with a view to lowering my ever increasing cholesterol, and trying to stop or reverse my slightly furred up carotid artery, see here:

    http://jackkruse.com/forum/showthrea...abs-in-worried!

    I have read the Starch Solution, Eat to live, and various other books that believe a lower-fat, higher carb, plant based diet is the way to go for longevity and lowering cholesterol.

    What interests me while reading these books, is they are the exact same format as the Primal Blueprint, the Paleo solution, Low carb living etc. whereby they frequently cite studies to back up their proposals to a healthy diet.
    They are also littered with success stories throughout, as do the Paleo books, like Ďhow I lost x poundsí or ĎHow I lowered my Cholesterolí etc.

    Itís the same with articles on the internet, they all contradict each other, some say high fat/low carb, some high carb/low fat, some in between. It makes your head spin trying to fathom out whatís the best way to eat!

    So how does one decide which diet to choose?! Iíve been low carb/high fat for 3 years now, and something isnít right with my cholesterol as high as it is, and with the furring of my artery, Iím worried!

    I recently have gone lower fat, higher carbs, 150-200g p/day, in the form of sweet potatoes, some legumes and oats(both have been soaked overnight), and 3-4 pieces of fruit a day.
    Iíve cut down on butter, eggs, cream and meat in general.
    I have also up my veg intake considerably.

    Maybe Iím one of the small percentage that doesnít do well on high fat diets.?!

    Iím now reading Nourishing Traditions, what are the views on this book?
    Seems to be more of a balanced approach to diet, not favouring higher fat or carbs in particular.

    Thanks

  • #2
    Originally posted by JonnyH View Post
    Maybe I’m one of the small percentage that doesn’t do well on high fat diets.?!
    It looks like you've made a commitment to a low fat low protein diet. So how will you determine whether it is a success for you?

    Comment


    • #3
      I've been in your shoes much too often. I think what is significantly different about eating primal is that it is seemingly a lot more natural. If you think about what animals eat, carnivores eat meat; herbivores eat plants. Further, this morning I created this thread which might be of interest to you: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread84273.html

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
        It looks like you've made a commitment to a low fat low protein diet. So how will you determine whether it is a success for you?
        Hi, I'm not low fat, just lower than I have been the last 3 years.

        Blood test scheduled in June will tell me if this new way of eating is better for me I guess.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by andi View Post
          I've been in your shoes much too often. I think what is significantly different about eating primal is that it is seemingly a lot more natural. If you think about what animals eat, carnivores eat meat; herbivores eat plants. Further, this morning I created this thread which might be of interest to you: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread84273.html
          Thanks for reply, I will read the artices linked later.

          This is what I find so confusing, you say what animals eat etc. But the books I've read recently all make good cases for humans actually should be plant eaters primarily. Likewise Primal Bueprint and the like make good cases for us being meat eaters.

          Who do we believe?!

          Comment


          • #6
            There are always studies to back up whatever claims people want to make. Keep in mind that studies are not as objective or scientifically pure as they claim to be and often appear to be. Many are skewed, either intentionally or unintentionally, right from the start, by using biased controls or seeded test groups, or incorrect grouping/separating of various factors. The bottom line is that scientific studies done in a lab by people that are not you will only get you so far.

            What you really need is self experimentation and that is because everyone is different. Many people thrive on a high fat low carb diet. Many people thrive on a low fat high carb diet. Many people thrive on Muscle Milk and Wheaties. Many people thrive on many different things. Nutrition and exercise and rest and health are not, nor have they ever been, one size fits all. Trying to make them so will always result in failure.

            So do what works for you. Try out different protocols and see what makes your body feel good. When you stop feeling good, change things up.

            Most diets, from fruitarians to paleo, vegans to primal, agree that eating whole foods, avoiding rancid oils, and quitting processed foods (including sodas and the like) is the most valuable decision you can make for yourself. The menu you end up with after eliminating those things is up to you and what works best for your system.
            yay!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JonnyH View Post
              Thanks for reply, I will read the artices linked later.

              This is what I find so confusing, you say what animals eat etc. But the books I've read recently all make good cases for humans actually should be plant eaters primarily. Likewise Primal Bueprint and the like make good cases for us being meat eaters.

              Who do we believe?!
              Well, personally I've only had success since eating primal. I wasn't looking to necessarily lose weight, (at 5'5 it fluctuates from 112-115) but I did gain muscle mass, my headaches have gone away, I'm sleeping better and feeling more rested. I think you need to try it and see for yourself.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JonnyH View Post
                Hi, I'm not low fat, just lower than I have been the last 3 years.

                Blood test scheduled in June will tell me if this new way of eating is better for me I guess.
                So numbers on a single blood test are the only thing you intend to base your determination of your level of health on?

                Originally posted by JonnyH View Post
                Thanks for reply, I will read the artices linked later.

                This is what I find so confusing, you say what animals eat etc. But the books I've read recently all make good cases for humans actually should be plant eaters primarily. Likewise Primal Bueprint and the like make good cases for us being meat eaters.

                Who do we believe?!
                It sounds like you have decided to believe that we are intended to be herbivores, based on a number of books that are making claims that the natural diet of humans is plant-based.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I base my diet on that of HG society in general. We have pretty good estimate of what a couple hundred of these societies ate and none of them seem to suffer from diseases of civilization (CVD, diabetes, cancer... ect). Guess what. There aren't any vegan HG societies anywhere ever. On average they get approximately 70% of their calories from hunted game. That leaves 30% for plant matter. This is documented fact.

                  How much meat you consume may be up to you. There is quite a variety to choose from, but you really do have to eat SOME animal if your gonna eat the human diet. I don't put stock in cholesterol tests (most people who have heart attacks and strokes have normal or low cholesterol).... and I'm not sure what a furred up carotid is??? Maybe you should consider getting a coronary calcium score instead and tracking inflammatory markers. Just a thought.

                  Basically eat like a predator not like prey (acknowledgements to J. Stanton GNOLLS.ORG - Home of J. Stanton and The Gnoll Credo)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                    So numbers on a single blood test are the only thing you intend to base your determination of your level of health on?

                    No, blood test to determine choesterol numbers. I will also see how I feel with sightly higher carb/lower fat, especially with respect to sport etc. I have found I seem drained on a low carb diet while working out regularly, woud like to see if that improves with the higher carbs.


                    It sounds like you have decided to believe that we are intended to be herbivores, based on a number of books that are making claims that the natural diet of humans is plant-based.
                    No I haven't, that's the point of my post, I don't know, I read books, articles, all with conflicting info, how do you decide what's right?!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by qqemokitty View Post
                      There are always studies to back up whatever claims people want to make. Keep in mind that studies are not as objective or scientifically pure as they claim to be and often appear to be. Many are skewed, either intentionally or unintentionally, right from the start, by using biased controls or seeded test groups, or incorrect grouping/separating of various factors. The bottom line is that scientific studies done in a lab by people that are not you will only get you so far.

                      What you really need is self experimentation and that is because everyone is different. Many people thrive on a high fat low carb diet. Many people thrive on a low fat high carb diet. Many people thrive on Muscle Milk and Wheaties. Many people thrive on many different things. Nutrition and exercise and rest and health are not, nor have they ever been, one size fits all. Trying to make them so will always result in failure.

                      So do what works for you. Try out different protocols and see what makes your body feel good. When you stop feeling good, change things up.

                      Most diets, from fruitarians to paleo, vegans to primal, agree that eating whole foods, avoiding rancid oils, and quitting processed foods (including sodas and the like) is the most valuable decision you can make for yourself. The menu you end up with after eliminating those things is up to you and what works best for your system.
                      That's a great post, thanks for that. I agree with eating whole foods, avoiding bad oils and processed foods, I steer well clear of those.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                        I base my diet on that of HG society in general. We have pretty good estimate of what a couple hundred of these societies ate and none of them seem to suffer from diseases of civilization (CVD, diabetes, cancer... ect). Guess what. There aren't any vegan HG societies anywhere ever. On average they get approximately 70% of their calories from hunted game. That leaves 30% for plant matter. This is documented fact.

                        How much meat you consume may be up to you. There is quite a variety to choose from, but you really do have to eat SOME animal if your gonna eat the human diet. I don't put stock in cholesterol tests (most people who have heart attacks and strokes have normal or low cholesterol).... and I'm not sure what a furred up carotid is??? Maybe you should consider getting a coronary calcium score instead and tracking inflammatory markers. Just a thought.

                        Basically eat like a predator not like prey (acknowledgements to J. Stanton GNOLLS.ORG - Home of J. Stanton and The Gnoll Credo)
                        Thanks for reply, like the look of the site you linked, will take a look.

                        I have also read that those with heart attacks etc. generally have low choesterol, but I have also read the exact opposite, hence my confusion and frustration!

                        I had an ultrasound on my arteries going up either side of my neck, they showed the left one to be a fair bit thickened than normal, it was 1.4mm in places, and up to 2mm in a small section. Reading here:

                        Intima-media thickness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        It states 'However, an IMT greater than 0.9-1mm is almost certainly are indicative of atherosclerosis and increased risk of cardiovascular disease' Hence my concern, and searching for a way to reverse this.

                        I wouldn't really be worried about my cholesterol numbers either if I had clean arteries.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          .
                          Last edited by Beachgirl; 08-15-2013, 07:47 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ah, I see why you are talking about now (re: furry carotids). I'm gonna take it your a non-smoker. Any signs of metabolic syndrome? Exercise?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              More information required.
                              Where did you come from health wise?
                              Is there any trend in your Insulin/Glucose levels & have you checked Leptin levels?
                              Do you have any overt symptoms, how's your thyroid & metabolic rate?
                              How is the rest of your life health wise, stress exercise, daily movement?
                              Have you seen any improvements in the last three years?

                              Have you tried IF, this is another very valuable dietary tool, kind of like a halfway variation, where even though you may eat a good amount of carbs, your body still spends more time in the part-keto zone because of the fasting.
                              "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X