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  • #61
    Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
    I must have been dreaming all those times I read about women losing their period on this very forum. But it's not low carb's fault, they just weren't eating enough, despite the profound satiating effect of ketosis. They should have just eaten beyond the point of satiation.
    No, it is not low carbs fault.

    It's caloric restriction/eating below BMR for too longs fault. And that can happen on any diet.
    I've known more women who've lost their periods on CW HCLF and very low cal. I've seen women/girls doing that to themselves since I was in high school 25 years ago. I promise you none of them had ever heard of Low Carb. They were just eating extremely little in the way of food/calories.

    Low carb and the satiation it provides is simply a tool that people can use to help them moderate their caloric intake, but they still need to be mindful of the effect that eating too little can have.
    It distresses me to sometimes see people in the mindset that losing weight faster is better, which invariably means lower cal than they could do if they would accept a slow steady weight loss in the more normal range of 1-2 lb a week. And also the mindset that they need constant linear weight loss for large amounts of weight... say they want to lose 60lbs in 6months. Maybe they can, but it's just not a healthy goal IMO. But I've certainly seen people who push, and push, at such things with constant restriction. Or even try for months and months on end to budge those last 5 vanity lbs with constant caloric restriction + increased training.

    Again, not the fault of "low carb". It is completely possible to play with the carb level you eat to get both satiation and an appropriate number of calories, and abundant vegetables per day.
    The fact that some people go to extremes... is just that. Some people.
    Some people will go to extremes on any diet.

    Low carb offers other benefits to other people for specific reasons as well, but that is not what is being discussed just here, and/or already has been(brain issues), so I'm not going to bring it up.

    In case anyone is interested switching to HFLC actually helped my period become regular again after several years of it being completely random and skipping months. I also no longer have PMS when it shows up, nor cramps.
    I suspect my hormones have improved quite a bit.
    So there are obviously different results.
    Last edited by cori93437; 05-04-2013, 10:50 AM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
      I don't know, Katherine, I don't make a habit of counting the people I see struggling with low carb. I'm not compiling a database. You can live in your comfortable paleo bubble all you want, but that's not going to change the fact that lots of people struggle on "the diet we evolved to eat". Guess who wrote this:
      A woman named Stephanie Ruper, who I never heard of. Was I supposed to have? Am I supposed to be psychic?

      If you want to think I live in a bubble because I don't jump up and down and point fingers each month when I see one woman mention she is underweight and has lost her period, that's your opinion. I think a lot of guys totally lose perspective when they are on this site.

      Yep, my own personal powers of observation tell me that I really have only been seeing about 1 woman a month mention this, and it's usually in the context of "my pre-existing eating disorders" or "my longterm problems with amennorrhea". My powers of deduction tell me that would be about 12 women a year, providing of course each monthly post is by a unique poster, which isn't always the case.

      That is not significant, especially since your classifying all of these posters as "struggling with low carb" is something you have chosen to do on your own in order to increase the count that are having difficulty because you think they ought to be.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
        It's caloric restriction/eating below BMR for too longs fault. And that can happen on any diet.

        Again, not the fault of "low carb". It is completely possible to play with the carb level you eat to get both satiation and an appropriate number of calories, and abundant vegetables per day.
        The fact that some people go to extremes... is just that. Some people.
        Some people will go to extremes on any diet.
        It can happen easier on VLC. Like I said, it has a profound effect on satiation to the point where some people have to eat exactly zero times a day to maintain their energy. I find the defense of ketosis in this context very ironic. If you had a friend that was eating a low calorie vegan diet and lost her period, you would do anything in your power to convince her to change her way of eating so she could be healthy again. But just because it's low carb, and everybody knows low carb is super healthy, there's no possible way the only variable missing from the equation is glucose. You just need to eat more! ... even though you don't want to.

        Also, I'm interested to know whether low carb slows down your metabolism as an adaptive strategy which improves longevity, or if it speeds up the metabolism and allows people to lose weight faster, giving them a "metabolic advantage." You can't have it both ways. Sorry if I constantly deride the way of eating that allowed you to regain your health, but the dogmatic approach to dieting I see around here can prevent others from regaining theirs.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
          ...the dogmatic approach to dieting I see around here can prevent others from regaining theirs.
          The dogmatic approach you propose is not all that much different from an eating disorder. The idea that there are thousands of people on the forum, mostly women, who are obsessed with eating a carb-free diet and are trying to force everyone to do it too is just bizarre.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
            That is not significant, especially since your classifying all of these posters as "struggling with low carb" is something you have chosen to do on your own in order to increase the count that are having difficulty because you think they ought to be.
            There's that bubble I was talking about. Ever heard of Matt Stone, Anthony Colpo, or Evelyn Kocur? Three people who have extensive experience helping sick and eating disordered low carb dieters live healthy lives again.

            I feel no need to defend low carb with the zeal of a hardcore vegan. I recognize its utility in some circumstances, and I also recognize its downfalls.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
              It can happen easier on VLC. Like I said, it has a profound effect on satiation to the point where some people have to eat exactly zero times a day to maintain their energy. I find the defense of ketosis in this context very ironic. If you had a friend that was eating a low calorie vegan diet and lost her period, you would do anything in your power to convince her to change her way of eating so she could be healthy again. But just because it's low carb, and everybody knows low carb is super healthy, there's no possible way the only variable missing from the equation is glucose. You just need to eat more! ... even though you don't want to.

              Also, I'm interested to know whether low carb slows down your metabolism as an adaptive strategy which improves longevity, or if it speeds up the metabolism and allows people to lose weight faster, giving them a "metabolic advantage." You can't have it both ways. Sorry if I constantly deride the way of eating that allowed you to regain your health, but the dogmatic approach to dieting I see around here can prevent others from regaining theirs.
              If I had a friend on any diet that was using that diet in a way that was harmful I would try to counsel them toward changes. Period. (no pun intented)

              I do not have any notions of HFLC being a magic bullet.
              It's a tool.
              I do not think it "speeds up metabolism" nor "slows down metabolism" it's simply an adaptation that is a benefit to humans in certain situations. And it provides the brain with relief if there are certain medical issues.

              I'm anything but dogmatic. Different diets work for different people just like different medications a doctor gives can react very differently in two different people.
              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                The dogmatic approach you propose is not all that much different from an eating disorder. The idea that there are thousands of people on the forum, mostly women, who are obsessed with eating a carb-free diet and are trying to force everyone to do it too is just bizarre.
                I would never imply that there are women on here obsessed with eating a no-carb diet. Ask all those women in the Nutritional Ketosis challenge threads. Nobody's coercing anyone into eating a low carb diet, but look in all the threads of people struggling and count the posts that recommend adding starch to their diet. It's the absolute last recommendation most people make, and sometimes it's never recommended. You don't need carbs, you just have candida. Wait, adrenal fatigue. No, are you fasting? You should fast, and take phosphatidylserine! Why? I dunno. Just don't eat carbs.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                  There's that bubble I was talking about. Ever heard of Matt Stone, Anthony Colpo, or Evelyn Kocur? Three people who have extensive experience helping sick and eating disordered low carb dieters live healthy lives again.
                  I could no doubt come up with dozens of names of experts in their fields who you have never heard of, thus proving beyond a doubt that you lead a shallow, narrow life.

                  It must make you feel really, really good to be better informed than 99.999999% of the population. I bet you're the life of the party, telling everybody to stop listening to their bodies and eat what you tell them to, or else.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                    There's that bubble I was talking about. Ever heard of Matt Stone, Anthony Colpo, or Evelyn Kocur? Three people who have extensive experience helping sick and eating disordered low carb dieters live healthy lives again.

                    I feel no need to defend low carb with the zeal of a hardcore vegan. I recognize its utility in some circumstances, and I also recognize its downfalls.
                    Yep, heard of them... but I eat HFLC because it works for me.
                    (And I have blood work done frequently to check markers that Choco is always saying will be out of whack. They are always fine)
                    My health is fine. And I really don't promote it, except to say... why bash it?
                    Different strikes for different folks.

                    Originally posted by Timthetaco View Post
                    I would never imply that there are women on here obsessed with eating a no-carb diet. Ask all those women in the Nutritional Ketosis challenge threads. Nobody's coercing anyone into eating a low carb diet, but look in all the threads of people struggling and count the posts that recommend adding starch to their diet. It's the absolute last recommendation most people make, and sometimes it's never recommended. You don't need carbs, you just have candida. Wait, adrenal fatigue. No, are you fasting? You should fast, and take phosphatidylserine! Why? I dunno. Just don't eat carbs.
                    I think you have become myopic.
                    In most of the threads I open one of the first suggestions is always "eat some potatoes" or "eat some carbs"
                    Heck, I've said it.
                    I've even directed women OUT if the "Ketosis" threads.
                    As have other members of those threads.
                    So...
                    It's not really what you think it is.
                    And everyone in those threads is told that they need to maintain their calories... not just eat a lot of fat and then "eat only when hungry". The basis of those threads is tracking your inputs carefully so that you don't run into trouble.
                    Still. It doesn't work for everyone.
                    No one ever said it does.
                    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      [QUOTE=Timthetaco;1180512] Ever heard of Matt Stone, Anthony Colpo, or Evelyn Kocur? Three people who have extensive experience helping sick and eating disordered low carb dieters live healthy lives again.

                      I do not know these people but I will be googling them ASAP. I am one of those LC'ers who went that direction in order to contain disordered eating. I am physically healthy, but man, I want to be emotionally healed. Thanks for dropping the reference amidst the debating....

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                      • #71
                        I still don't understand why people think primal or paleo= low carb. I think SAD and CW= very high carb diets. Extremely high carb.

                        Primal or paleo is not some excuse not to eat fruits and vegetables. I don't know why people who eat primal or paleo are paranoid about fruit and vegetable consumption.

                        http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                        Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                          I still don't understand why people think primal or paleo= low carb. I think SAD and CW= very high carb diets. Extremely high carb.

                          Primal or paleo is not some excuse not to eat fruits and vegetables. I don't know why people who eat primal or paleo are paranoid about fruit and vegetable consumption.
                          Primal/Paleo does not = low carb.

                          But for some of us HFLC works, and we like it.

                          We all have to find our own groove where we feel and function the best.
                          Real natural whole foods... meats/fish/shellfish, vegetables, roots/tubers, fruits, nuts, and dairy if you tolerate it.

                          There is a whole range of macro spreads that can be worked out from those things to suit every individuals needs.
                          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Since then I have listened to my body’s hunger signals, forgiven myself for eating at any time and in any amount I would have beforehand considered negative, gained ten pounds,
                            LOL @ people who starve themselves. Idiots. I grew up hungry, always hungry, ate all the food I could find ever because there was never enough. This must be a rich people problem, eating too little. Fat beats hungry any day, this should be obvious from birth without any social influence at all. And you can't blame the types of food you weren't eating enough of for your problems. Rule #1 of being alive = eat ALL the food, and then some extra. Then play, work, and live hard to be strong.
                            Crohn's, doing SCD

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                              Primal/Paleo does not = low carb.

                              But for some of us HFLC works, and we like it.

                              We all have to find our own groove where we feel and function the best.
                              Real natural whole foods... meats/fish/shellfish, vegetables, roots/tubers, fruits, nuts, and dairy if you tolerate it.

                              There is a whole range of macro spreads that can be worked out from those things to suit every individuals needs.
                              This. Paleo and primal are about working out what works best for you. N=1 experimentation and all.

                              Some people need high fat, low carb diets and some people need higher carb, lower fat diets. The great part of paleo and primal is that you can totally adjust it to your needs. It's not a "one size fits all" perscription like Atkins or the Ornish diet tend to be.
                              "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                                This. Paleo and primal are about working out what works best for you. N=1 experimentation and all.

                                Some people need high fat, low carb diets and some people need higher carb, lower fat diets. The great part of paleo and primal is that you can totally adjust it to your needs. It's not a "one size fits all" perscription like Atkins or the Ornish diet tend to be.
                                For me, the magic of paleo was simply learning to NOT be afraid of fat. For a while, I took that to another extreme, and feared carbs the way I used to fear fat in my CW days. It took reading the Perfect Health Diet, the Archevore blog, and info about a few other more moderate WOEs to realize that NO macronutrient is the devil that causes fat gain. There's probably a point where too many carbs aids fat gain, and the same with protein and fat... but finding a healthy balance is what's key. For perfectionists (raising my hand), it's easy to hear "low carb paleo" and think "ok, I'm doing this the right way. 40g of carbs a day for me. screw taking it slow." But it took me forever to comprehend that even eating 100g carbs is low-carb compared to most of the world.

                                One of the most eye-opening things I ever read on the forum was a comment that said (roughly), "the reason why Atkins works, and even low-fat diets work (at least as long as you stick with them) is because they ALL remove the same high-reward, low-satiety foods from your pantry -- Cheetos, Oreos, etc."

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