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fish oil supplements (omega 3)

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  • #16
    Do not take fish oil supplements. You do not need omega 3. Most of civilization has been landlocked over our history as a species and we got along just fine without consuming any fish or fish oil. Keep your PUFA as low as possible. This includes omega 3 since it is even more likely to oxidize than omega 6. Omega 3, especially EPA and DHA, are the most fragile fats in nature. The reason why cold water fish are rich in them is because they are liquid at arctic water temperatures. Inside the human body, they go rancid because our natural body temperatures are more than high enough to spoil them. This is why fish spoils so quickly while a meat like steak, which is very high in SFA and very low in PUFA, keeps longer.

    Some great articles to read:

    Why I Don't Take Fish Oil

    PUFA, lipid peroxidation processes, and the implications for atherosclerosis and diet Part II

    The Great Fish Oil Experiment

    Unsaturated fatty acids: Nutritionally essential, or toxic?

    Unsaturated Vegetable Oils: Toxic

    Do "Essential Fatty Acids" Cause Pattern Hair Loss?

    I stay far away from that crap. Fish oil was historically manufactured for one purpose - to make paint products. It is a drying oil, so it hardens with exposure to normal air temperatures, oxygen and light. It's great for making paints, stains, varnishes, etc. When the paint industry switched to cheaper petrol-based paints decades ago, the fish oil and seed oil industries had nowhere to go. The seed oil industries promoted the cholesterol-heart disease hypothesis, so their toxic oils got marketed as healthy and replaced the animal-based traditional fats. Fish oil had more trouble because it contains cholesterol, but now it is being marketed as a health food as well. In reality, it's probably worse than the toxic vegetable oils because it's even more prone to oxidation.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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    • #17
      Interesting. I was introduced to fish oil when I was pregnant, was told by obgyn it was necessary for the fetus.

      How about cod liver oil?

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      • #18
        Very interested,
        Although I appreciate the contrary opinion and agree that Omega 3 intake from natural food sources is far superior than supplementation, the links provided failed to convince me that fish oil supplements are on par with the damaging effects of omega 6 seed oils
        I do wonder if the opinion is not driven by a puritanical approach that I see here so often, which often suggests it's either "my way or the highway", sure there is the ultimate, whatever that is for you, but there is also the more realistic path's of just being less bad than the current SAD situation and from what I have read fish oil may well be one of those compromises that some need to make.
        Though I am still interested in reading more and will follow.
        "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Omni View Post
          Very interested,
          Although I appreciate the contrary opinion and agree that Omega 3 intake from natural food sources is far superior than supplementation, the links provided failed to convince me that fish oil supplements are on par with the damaging effects of omega 6 seed oils
          I do wonder if the opinion is not driven by a puritanical approach that I see here so often, which often suggests it's either "my way or the highway", sure there is the ultimate, whatever that is for you, but there is also the more realistic path's of just being less bad than the current SAD situation and from what I have read fish oil may well be one of those compromises that some need to make.
          Though I am still interested in reading more and will follow.
          The reason that the idea that Omega 3 can be as damaging as Omega 6 sounds a bit off is because WHO IN THE HELL EATS TOO MUCH OMEGA 3?

          Unless it's through supplementation, it's very difficult to get lots of Omega 3. Sure, if you are very atypical and eat salmon 10x a week, it's possible, but for most they get almost no Omega 3 in their normal SAD. On the other hand, Omega 6s are everywhere in the SAD, so we talk about it much more.

          Basically, if Omega 3s were added to everything in high quantities like Omega 6s are, we'd likely have very similar negative issues. I can't wait for Fish Oil fried Potato chips.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by girlhk View Post
            Interesting. I was introduced to fish oil when I was pregnant, was told by obgyn it was necessary for the fetus.

            How about cod liver oil?
            Same problems. It's higher in SFA's and fat soluble vitamins so it probably isn't as bad, but still...
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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            • #21
              I'm finding this thoroughly confusing. Half of the posters are bagging on fish oil pills, citing that they are unstable, even detrimental to achieving good health. On the other hand, our fearless leader offers them as a supplement, stating that he takes them every day!

              I would love to eat fresh seafood 4 times a week but I have a family of 3 to feed too! We get wild caught salmon once a week if were lucky, so I'm in the camp that supplementing is a great idea, if from a reputable source.

              I just want to know, are fish oils too delicate to survive in pill form? Do they the oxidize and become harmful? HELP!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by lone.star View Post
                I just want to know, are fish oils too delicate to survive in pill form? Do they the oxidize and become harmful? HELP!
                It's one of those things where we need to make our own educated guess. I don't doubt that an effective supplement exists or could exist but I feel that consuming an isolated/refined nutrient is basically the same thing as adding B vitamins to Froot Loops--not very primal. A lot of posters here use affordable canned seafood to cover their o-3 bases.
                37//6'3"/185

                My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by lone.star View Post
                  I'm finding this thoroughly confusing. Half of the posters are bagging on fish oil pills, citing that they are unstable, even detrimental to achieving good health. On the other hand, our fearless leader offers them as a supplement, stating that he takes them every day!

                  I would love to eat fresh seafood 4 times a week but I have a family of 3 to feed too! We get wild caught salmon once a week if were lucky, so I'm in the camp that supplementing is a great idea, if from a reputable source.

                  I just want to know, are fish oils too delicate to survive in pill form? Do they the oxidize and become harmful? HELP!
                  I'd stay away from them in pill form. At best, there is very little proof that it extends life or lowers cardiac mortality.

                  By far the best way to balance out your Omegas is to lower your Omega-6 intake. Just eliminating seed oils will probably do the job for most people.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bob loblaw View Post
                    The reason that the idea that Omega 3 can be as damaging as Omega 6 sounds a bit off is because WHO IN THE HELL EATS TOO MUCH OMEGA 3?

                    Unless it's through supplementation, it's very difficult to get lots of Omega 3. Sure, if you are very atypical and eat salmon 10x a week, it's possible, but for most they get almost no Omega 3 in their normal SAD. On the other hand, Omega 6s are everywhere in the SAD, so we talk about it much more.
                    This. Exactly. You need a small amount of each O3 and O6. So they are not inherently evil. I think the Peatarian anti-PUFA campaign is a bit extreme. C'mon. Eating a piece of salmon is not unhealthy.

                    Originally posted by lone.star View Post
                    I'm finding this thoroughly confusing. Half of the posters are bagging on fish oil pills, citing that they are unstable, even detrimental to achieving good health. On the other hand, our fearless leader offers them as a supplement, stating that he takes them every day!

                    I would love to eat fresh seafood 4 times a week but I have a family of 3 to feed too! We get wild caught salmon once a week if were lucky, so I'm in the camp that supplementing is a great idea, if from a reputable source.

                    I just want to know, are fish oils too delicate to survive in pill form? Do they the oxidize and become harmful? HELP!
                    Choco and I butt heads quite regularly around here but this is one issue we are on the same side of. The pill form of O3 does more harm than good. Work on bringing down your O6 and it's not even needed.

                    There is budget friendly seafood available no matter where you live. The best O3 supplement, IMO, is a can of sardines.

                    And yes, Mark sells them. That doesn't mean everybody needs them. He even said in so many words at the AHS meeting that someone eating a healthy diet does not need supplements.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by lone.star View Post
                      I'm finding this thoroughly confusing. Half of the posters are bagging on fish oil pills, citing that they are unstable, even detrimental to achieving good health. On the other hand, our fearless leader offers them as a supplement, stating that he takes them every day!
                      Don't blindly follow anyone else's methodology. Do your own research. Take what you need from Primal and make it your own. Mark Sisson is not infallible and doesn't have all of the answers.

                      I agree with everything Zach and ChocoTaco said here. I usually do.
                      be the hair that knots with my hair
                      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                      primal since oct. 1, 2012

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                      • #26
                        Should I limit my olive oil consumption for the sake of reducing o6?

                        I like to drown things in extra virgin.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jasperb View Post
                          Should I limit my olive oil consumption for the sake of reducing o6?

                          I like to drown things in extra virgin.
                          Olive oil is not horrible if you are using it cold on a salad but it is not really good to cook with as it has a rather low oxidation point.

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                          • #28
                            Sorry - realize you've all done your round-robin on this one but for my 2 cents:

                            1. Please. Don't. Use. Krill. Want other seafood? Want healthy oceans? Keep off it.
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread46234.html

                            2. We all seem to accept what Mark says regarding people who don't benefit from high fat consumption due to hereditary predisposition for heart disease. So why can't we also accept that the same is true on the other end of the spectrum...some of us benefit greatly by supplementation. Either during a temporary phase of balancing out or for a lifetime.

                            Folks w/ MS have seen some great benefits when taking high doses of O3 (at least until they grasp how to reduce their O6 naturally). Lets not scare people off of making an effort even it's GASP pill-popping to most of us. When they get sick of that routine, then at least they've learned what it will & won't do for their numbers come bloodwork.

                            3. $30 for decent seafood? Not in my neck of the woods and I'm on the coast. It should be cheaper but it AINT. Maybe for that soybean oil infused canned food.

                            “you aren't what you eat - you are what you don't poop.” Wavy Gravy

                            Today I am Fillyjonk. Tommorow I will be Snufkin.

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                            • #29
                              I live in the Little Russia section of San Francisco and we have a ton of Russian deli/groceries/bodegas. Anyhow they carry canned cod livers. Not oil, actual livers. A good alternative?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by spk View Post
                                So why can't we also accept that the same is true on the other end of the spectrum...some of us benefit greatly by supplementation. Either during a temporary phase of balancing out or for a lifetime.

                                Folks w/ MS have seen some great benefits when taking high doses of O3 (at least until they grasp how to reduce their O6 naturally). Lets not scare people off of making an effort even it's GASP pill-popping to most of us. When they get sick of that routine, then at least they've learned what it will & won't do for their numbers come bloodwork.

                                3. $30 for decent seafood? Not in my neck of the woods and I'm on the coast. It should be cheaper but it AINT. Maybe for that soybean oil infused canned food.
                                I have no problem with supplementation to correct a temporary imbalance or for a real medical issue. What I object to is people being sold the blanket assumption that everybody is deficient in everything all the time.

                                Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                                I live in the Little Russia section of San Francisco and we have a ton of Russian deli/groceries/bodegas. Anyhow they carry canned cod livers. Not oil, actual livers. A good alternative?
                                Yes, I get these from a little middle eastern bodega. They also carry sardines from Morocco (in olive oil) with the most delicious spicy spices.

                                The point it, no matter where you live, you can eat seafood and there are lots of brands with no BPA if that is a big deal for you and lots that don't have bad ingredients. It's up to us to not get lazy and just pop some pills instead of going to the trouble of reading some labels.

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