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Who's joining me? Very Low Carb - Low Protein - Support Thread

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  • #61
    To me this is basically what it comes down to. In order to burn stored fat, the body needs to be in a caloric deficit. I think the body burns stored fat easier once it is adapted to using fat for fuel, as opposed to glucose. But if you want to lose weight, you still need to eat at a caloric deficit, whether you are low fat and high carb, or low carb and high fat. Eating high fat isn't a magical answer, it still takes some discipline, you can't just go buck wild and eat all the fat you want and expect to lose weight. But I think it's a lot easier to lose weight this way because eating high fat keeps you feeling satisfied for much longer, and is easier for the body to transition from burning fat in your food, to body fat when it runs out of food fats to use.

    As far as increasing protein, that I don't really know. I would say give this a good month and see what you get. That's what everyone always tells me. Give it a month and if it isn't working, change it.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by richard View Post
      thanks for your thoughts and the link. This is an experiment and I think it's a good idea to try stuff out and see where it goes.

      The jury is out on this, but I believe that low protein and high fat are crucial to maintaining health rather than just low carb with moderate or high protein. I believe there are very smart people who state the case for this.
      It depends how you look at it.

      Glucose is far more essential to the body than fat is. It is so crucial, your body will consume its own muscle, bone, connective tissue and organs to get it. Even on a perfect zero carb diet in full ketosis, you'll still require 50g or so of glucose a day. That cannot be said about fat, which you don't need much of (if any at all). Most traditional societies consume more carbohydrate than fat. Humans evolved in warm equatorial regions where the foods of choice are fruits, starches and lean game meats. Humans didn't migrate to cold-weather regions where fatty game and cold water fish exist until fairly recently.

      The reason why I prefer carbohydrate over fat is multifaceted:

      1.) Carbohydrate has a higher burn rate than fat.
      2.) Carbohydrate produces more CO2 than fat. This means your mitochondria are more robust, which generally points to a faster metabolism.
      3.) Carbohydrate is more pro-thyroid than fat in general due to the unsaturated fat content of most fats.
      4.) Carbohydrate is not stored directly as fat where fat is. I find a carbohydrate-derived calorie surplus to yield more lean muscle mass creation than fat.
      5.) Carbohydrate is stored in the tissues as saturated fat and omega-9 monounsaturated fat. Fat stores as whatever you consume it to be. If you eat a lot of pork, poultry, nuts, eggs, seeds and unsaturated oils, you are going to have much higher levels of unsaturated fats in your tissues than someone that consumes fruit, starch and lean meats.

      I prefer lean red meats, starches and fruits over fatty meats and vegetables. I don't think it's necessarily unhealthy, but I do believe it is a far inferior fuel source.

      I support each person trying new things to find out how they react. That's very important. My suggestion is to not be married to the idea and entertain the possibility that it may be flawed.
      Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 04-26-2013, 10:00 AM.
      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by MarissaLinnea View Post
        To me this is basically what it comes down to. In order to burn stored fat, the body needs to be in a caloric deficit. I think the body burns stored fat easier once it is adapted to using fat for fuel, as opposed to glucose. But if you want to lose weight, you still need to eat at a caloric deficit, whether you are low fat and high carb, or low carb and high fat.
        You burn fat and glucose at all times. If at any given point you aren't burning fat or glucose, you're dead. There is no such thing as "fat adapted." That's just marketing speak and it's total BS. If your body loses the ability to burn fat you'll be in a coffin.

        Diabetes, metabolic syndrome, glucose tolerance issues...they aren't even related to carbohydrate consumption. It's an overabundance of polyunsaturated fat in the diet that leads to all these issues. Diabetes isn't a sugar issue, it's a fat issue. People consume too much PUFA and not enough SFA to balance it out. Carbohydrate gets the fallout because your preferred method of metabolism is glucose metabolism, so as the rancid fats attack your body you lose the ability to process carbohydrate. Fat is the main thing that's destroying our health - rancid, oxidized polyunsaturated fats.

        You're dead on with the caloric deficit.
        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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        • #64
          Choco, what part of the term "Support Thread" did you not understand?

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          • #65
            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
            You burn fat and glucose at all times. If at any given point you aren't burning fat or glucose, you're dead. There is no such thing as "fat adapted." That's just marketing speak and it's total BS. If your body loses the ability to burn fat you'll be in a coffin.

            Diabetes, metabolic syndrome, glucose tolerance issues...they aren't even related to carbohydrate consumption. It's an overabundance of polyunsaturated fat in the diet that leads to all these issues. Diabetes isn't a sugar issue, it's a fat issue. People consume too much PUFA and not enough SFA to balance it out. Carbohydrate gets the fallout because your preferred method of metabolism is glucose metabolism, so as the rancid fats attack your body you lose the ability to process carbohydrate. Fat is the main thing that's destroying our health - rancid, oxidized polyunsaturated fats.

            You're dead on with the caloric deficit.
            There is such thing at keto adaptation, which is what everyone on this thread is after I think.

            Anyway, I second what Paleobird said, support por favor??? lol!!!

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            • #66
              In other news.....I have ketones, yay!!!

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                Choco, what part of the term "Support Thread" did you not understand?
                Misinformation is never good. In order to support someone, you make sure they know what they're getting into. Is it more supportive to let someone believe something that's incorrect just because it may be in line with their current thought process?

                You support the truth, and "Carbohydrate drives insulin drives fat" is a flat out lie.
                Originally posted by MarissaLinnea View Post
                Anyway, I second what Paleobird said, support por favor??? lol!!!
                Being a "yes man" isn't giving support. You support someone by giving them the facts, whether they make you feel warm and fuzzy or not. Have you ever had a personal trainer at a gym before? Good personal trainers are some of the most supportive people in the world, and they do it by making you work your ass off and push through the pain, not give you hugs and kisses
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                • #68
                  No comment about the keto adaption, huh??

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                  • #69
                    Someone is wrong on the internet, and all discussion must be quashed.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                      Choco, what part of the term "Support Thread" did you not understand?
                      agree with paloebird.

                      Choco, some of your comments are insensitive and can be construed as offensive and insulting, "My suggestion is to not be married to the idea and entertain the possibility that it may be flawed. "

                      Also, I think you should review the literature from experts in the field before you say your beliefs are superior. Do a search on glucose and you'll find reports stating that the body has 4-5g (depending on weight, the lower of which is for a person weighing 150-160lbs) of glucose circulates through the blood stream. I read that was a spoon full of sugar. I also think our bodies contain glucose reserves in our livers and muscles. If the body needs to access glucose, the body can convert proteins into glucose. I'm not an expert and overgeneralizing at this point, but there are many doctors and experts that have proven this already. I did a quick search and came across this link: Four grams of glucose I think your signature states it best,"Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success."
                      Nutritional Ketosis Journal - http://dobnk.blogspot.com/ and http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread83999.html

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by MarissaLinnea View Post
                        In other news.....I have ketones, yay!!!
                        congrats. it really feels great.
                        Last edited by dob; 04-26-2013, 11:27 PM.
                        Nutritional Ketosis Journal - http://dobnk.blogspot.com/ and http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread83999.html

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                          Misinformation is never good. In order to support someone, you make sure they know what they're getting into. Is it more supportive to let someone believe something that's incorrect just because it may be in line with their current thought process?

                          You support the truth, and "Carbohydrate drives insulin drives fat" is a flat out lie.

                          Being a "yes man" isn't giving support. You support someone by giving them the facts, whether they make you feel warm and fuzzy or not. Have you ever had a personal trainer at a gym before? Good personal trainers are some of the most supportive people in the world, and they do it by making you work your ass off and push through the pain, not give you hugs and kisses
                          Having a different opinion from you=/=misinformation. There is a difference between a thread to debate an issue and a support thread. EVERYBODY knows how you think about this. Goodness knows you've repeated it often enough. So, no one is asking you to change your views, just take it elsewhere. Once again your opinion=/="facts".

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                            Having a different opinion from you=/=misinformation. There is a difference between a thread to debate an issue and a support thread. EVERYBODY knows how you think about this. Goodness knows you've repeated it often enough. So, no one is asking you to change your views, just take it elsewhere. Once again your opinion=/="facts".
                            The OP stated that they were having trouble losing weight because of protein consumption because it generates insulin. That's not factual. Not only is protein the least fattening macronutrient, trading it calorie-for-calorie with fat will lead to more fat gain because of protein's higher burn rate. Furthermore, insulin has nothing to do with fat gain, which the OP implied.

                            If you want to go on a high fat diet, do it based on factual information. This diet is a reaction based on misinformation.
                            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                              The OP stated that they were having trouble losing weight because of protein consumption because it generates insulin. That's not factual. Not only is protein the least fattening macronutrient, trading it calorie-for-calorie with fat will lead to more fat gain because of protein's higher burn rate. Furthermore, insulin has nothing to do with fat gain, which the OP implied.

                              If you want to go on a high fat diet, do it based on factual information. This diet is a reaction based on misinformation.
                              So which is it Choco? You can't say this and then say that CICO is the only thing that matters. Talking out of both sides of your mouth again.
                              Once again, disagreeing with you =/= misinformation. Now, please, step off.

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                              • #75
                                Thank you so much


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