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Who's joining me? Very Low Carb - Low Protein - Support Thread

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  • #16
    Sugar is needed for the conversion of t4 to t3. Going LC for hypothyroid is a big mistake.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Zach View Post
      Sugar is needed for the conversion of t4 to t3. Going LC for hypothyroid is a big mistake.
      Who said anything about going LC for hypothyroid?

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      • #18
        No health expert would advocate the approach that you are suggesting and for good reason. Overly demonizing any of the three main macros is counter productive. You need protein to build tissue include muscles, you need carbohydrates for glycogen, and you need fats so you can get your fat soluble vitamins. I could go on at length but the work has already been done and posted on here if you look for it. Mark just did a writeup on protein needs for example.

        My advice is to use the information on here to find a healthy balance of fat, protein, and carbohydrates from healthy primal sources (eg avoiding grains, soy, and bad oils). This site was never intended to foster dietary extremism and pursuing extremism is liable to have health ramifications later. Please be careful and your millage may vary.
        http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Daemonized View Post
          No health expert would advocate the approach that you are suggesting and for good reason. Overly demonizing any of the three main macros is counter productive. You need protein to build tissue include muscles, you need carbohydrates for glycogen, and you need fats so you can get your fat soluble vitamins. I could go on at length but the work has already been done and posted on here if you look for it. Mark just did a writeup on protein needs for example.

          My advice is to use the information on here to find a healthy balance of fat, protein, and carbohydrates from healthy primal sources (eg avoiding grains, soy, and bad oils). This site was never intended to foster dietary extremism and pursuing extremism is liable to have health ramifications later. Please be careful and your millage may vary.
          well, one person may think it is extreme but another does not. Different people have different ways to thrive. I don't believe one size fits all.

          And it's impossible to categorize "primal" as just one macro balance. Some primal people ate virtually no carbs. There is no call for labeling something extreme as an absolute. We are all trying to eat primal as we see it -- and it is ALWAYS a diet that today somehow in some way approximates attributes of what we believe "true primal" to be -- and none of us know that.

          I already said I haven't done great on a standard primal diet and so I'm trying this.

          And by the way, lots of health "experts" advocate very low carb diets. Ron Rosedale comes to mind and there are many others.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by richard View Post
            And by the way, lots of health "experts" advocate very low carb diets. Ron Rosedale comes to mind and there are many others.
            Yes, there are health experts, and granted the term is used loosely, that recommend very low fat or very low carb. There are none, however, that recommend very low carb - low protein as your title suggests.


            I also have also never said that there is just one healthy macro balance. In fact I believe that one's macro needs depend greatly on the current conditions of one's body, one's activity level, as well as any desired increase or decease in fat and or muscle. That said, there is a difference between a balance and an attempt to greatly increase any one macro while greatly reducing the other two. I am saying that the later is likely to have negative consequences.
            http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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            • #21
              Some health experts do recommend low carb & low protein, as that is a keto diet.
              Protein: How Much Is Too Much? | Primal Body Primal Mind Diet and Nutrition

              As the OP quiet rightly said, you need to drop your protein if you want your body to actually make effective use of the ketones produced and therefor not excrete them.

              It sounds to me like if your on a "keto diet" which consists of high fat, high protein and low carbs, you'll just be switching to protein as a substitute source of carbs via gluconeogenesis. But I'm no health expert..

              While Johns Hopkins uses the keto diet to treat epilepsy in kids rather than for general health, they also warn that for the diet to be defective the protein intake also needs to be reduced as (IIRC) up to 50% of your protein intake can be converted into glucose, which would throw the patient out of a ketotic state.

              They also state that while most patients only stay on the diet for a couple of years, some continue for 5 plus yrs, without any health effects, and "surprisingly" no signs of cholesterol issues or heart disease despite the high amount of saturated fat in the diet (largely from heavy cream according to their dietary recommendations).
              Last edited by Misabi; 04-24-2013, 03:06 PM. Reason: To fix a brain fart :-)
              If you're interested in my (very) occasional updates on how I'm working out and what I'm eating click here.

              Originally posted by tfarny
              If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/

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              • #22
                Personally, even though the title says so, I believe this to be a more moderate protein than low protein. Low protein, IMO, would be much lower that what the OP is eating, and what I intend to be eating.

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                • #23
                  Yeah, I can' t really know how much protein I'm going to eat. As of now the plan is to stick to small portions and see how I feel. I am still in the "adaptation" phase but doing surprisingly well. It is a challenge eating enough fat.

                  One thing I do consume is psyllium fiber. I have taken it for years and find it very helpful. I am also grinding my raw veggies at the moment for gut reasons although I don't think that will be for much longer.

                  I'm getting fat from:

                  grass fed butter
                  unprocessed palm oil
                  coconut oil
                  animal fats incidental to fatty cuts of meat
                  avocado
                  olive oil

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                  • #24
                    This is an interesting segment of a Nora Gedgaudas talk regarding protein levels.

                    Metabolic Function & Excess Protein Consumption | Nora Gedgaudas - YouTube

                    The takeaway for me is that people who come to paleo with very sugar dependent dis-regulated metabolisms need to be more careful about their protein intake as gluconeogenesis will be more of an issue for them. But those people who were not big sugar/carb junkies to begin with can get away with eating more protein.

                    Once you are firmly in ketosis and have been for some time, I think you can also afford to eat more protein.

                    To the OP, the diet you are proposing is something I have lived in for quite a while now as I am using ketosis for the treatment of my epilepsy. My ratios are about 75f/20p/5c but that varies from day to day. I'm not tracking carefully as I used to since I am in maintenance mode as far as weight goes.

                    I'm not sure it's really necessary to push it as high as 80%+ fat but I will be watching your experiment with interest. (The protocol Johns Hopkins currently uses for treating epilepsy is 74/20/6. It used to be more like 80/10/10)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by richard View Post
                      Yeah, I can' t really know how much protein I'm going to eat. As of now the plan is to stick to small portions and see how I feel. I am still in the "adaptation" phase but doing surprisingly well. It is a challenge eating enough fat.

                      One thing I do consume is psyllium fiber. I have taken it for years and find it very helpful. I am also grinding my raw veggies at the moment for gut reasons although I don't think that will be for much longer.

                      I'm getting fat from:

                      grass fed butter
                      unprocessed palm oil
                      coconut oil
                      animal fats incidental to fatty cuts of meat
                      avocado
                      olive oil
                      Please reconsider your intake of so much fiber. It may not be doing you any favors.

                      Gut Sense: How to reverse and prevent constipation in children and adults

                      http://www.amazon.ca/Fiber-Menace-Co.../dp/0970679645

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                      • #26
                        What she said.

                        High-fibre supplement (psyllium) linked to colon cancer risk

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                        • #27
                          yeah, I will have to re-examine that fiber. I've been using it since 1990 and it's been super helpful.

                          Thanks!

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                          • #28
                            Feeling really crappy and depressed tonight. It's purely the adaptation period. I will try some more salt.

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                            • #29
                              this morning had some bone broth, very nice. Feel great.

                              Do you know how much protein is contained in bone broth? Obviously it varies a lot. Mine was made with pork necks in pressure cooker for two hours. Very gelatinous. I had about a cup full this morning along with butter/coconut oil tea.
                              Last edited by richard; 04-25-2013, 07:35 AM.

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                              • #30
                                In his book Rosedale Diet, Dr. Rosedale suggests 60g of protein a day, spread out. Some researchers or experts suggest more. Obviously there is a lot of variation in this. And I've found .6g per pound, vs. .6g per kilo, which is quite a variation, LOL.

                                There is a strict 3 week "level one" similar to Atkins induction period. During this time he suggests keeping satfat levels near zero. I'm not sure I get the reason for that, and I'm not doing it that way. In fact I'm not following it but I think it is an interesting book and an interesting approach.

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