Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Minnesota Starvation experiment

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Minnesota Starvation experiment

    What happens physiologically and psychologically when you put 36 men on a three months diet of 3200 calories, followed by an 1800 calories semi-starvation diet for six months, and then reefed them for the following three months? Almost 70 years after this ground breaking experiment, it still has relevance for people interested in weight loss and dieting.

    When refeeding at the end of the experient people lost even more weight due to loss of water, - they eat some more food and it happens that they still lose more weight:

    "For some, the rehabilitation period proved the most difficult part of the experiment. Many were surprised when they initially lost additional weight after being provided a bit more food, a result of losing the excess edema fluid in their bodies."

    Here is a very interesting article about the experiment:

    They Starved So That Others Be Better Fed: Remembering Ancel Keys and the Minnesota Experiment
    Last edited by Gorbag; 04-21-2013, 02:14 PM.
    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

    - Schopenhauer

  • #2
    May have to have a dig through the data,
    Would have been interesting to see the same experiment with women, I dare say there would have been quite different responses.
    "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

    Comment


    • #3
      Well that's spooky, I walk by Shevlin Hall every day.

      I have to wonder how much distress was inflicted by the food itself? Despite the low calorie total it's probably more carb than most people would eat ad lib, and digesting all of that with no supplements could be pretty taxing and result in pretty strange gut bugs. Anecdotally it seems like people have more peace of mind on a total fast compared to dealing with regular blobs of powder and syrup.
      37//6'3"/185

      My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

      Comment


      • #4
        There's a book on the experiment by Todd tucker which is a good read. It's really quite crazy what happens to the men physiologically. Food obsessions and weird food habits (one guy used to mash his whole meal together and added water to make a sludge), dreams of turning to cannablism, self harm, etc.

        They suffered from edema because they were allowed to drink unlimited black coffee, which they drank a lot of to fill their stomachs with something.

        The average calorie intake was about 1600 calories. Which goes to show how unreliable people are at calculating their own calorie intake when you hear people saying they ate 900 calories for months and didn't lose weight. Yes, your BMR and metabolism can slow down but it doesn't happen without you becoming a lot weaker and tired.
        Last edited by Forgotmylastusername; 04-22-2013, 12:20 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
          They suffered from edema because they were allowed to drink unlimited black coffee, which they drank a lot of to fill their stomachs with something.
          Did the resachers conclude that black coffee caused the edema? Dieting and stress we know causes water retention, and drinking lots of fluids in general helps lessening it. My experience from dieting is contrary to what you are saying here, that coffee, water and certain non-calorie drinks instead reduces water retention...
          "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

          - Schopenhauer

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
            Did the resachers conclude that black coffee caused the edema? Dieting and stress we know causes water retention, and drinking lots of fluids in general helps lessening it. My experience from dieting is contrary to what you are saying here, that coffee, water and certain non-calorie drinks instead reduces water retention...
            I think there is a tipping point based on personal experience.

            When I consume normal amounts of food and drink a cup of coffee, it seems to have a diuretic effect. When I skip lunch altogether and fast and drink black coffee, it seems to bloat me. Not sure what that's about.

            For me to bloat the most, I'll do a fast followed by a large refeed. That bloats me like crazy.
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
              Did the resachers conclude that black coffee caused the edema? Dieting and stress we know causes water retention, and drinking lots of fluids in general helps lessening it. My experience from dieting is contrary to what you are saying here, that coffee, water and certain non-calorie drinks instead reduces water retention...
              It wasn't just a few glasses a day, they were drinking water and coffee in copious amounts. Something like 30 cups of water and coffee a day. Doing that for months on end coupled with starvation can't be good.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
                they were drinking water and coffee in copious amounts. Something like 30 cups of water and coffee a day.
                I can report that University of Minnesota students still do this today, they just pay $2 for the privilege.
                37//6'3"/185

                My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

                Comment


                • #9
                  Wait, this experiment was conducted by Ancel Keys? Hmmm...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                    Wait, this experiment was conducted by Ancel Keys? Hmmm...
                    One of more than one ethically-challenged experiments he was involved with.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
                      Wait, this experiment was conducted by Ancel Keys? Hmmm...
                      Yeah, the original data was on 119 men......but only 39 could be used to verify his position so the rest of the men where left to finish starving .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        ^ lol

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The issue was that they were not volunteers who had given informed consent. They were conscientious objectors who were drafted and assigned to this project, which seriously affected their health (as it could have been predicted to happen). The fact that the experiment was run at all is in itself unethical.

                          I wonder if there was any health follow-up on participants over the years.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                            I wonder if there was any health follow-up on participants over the years.
                            I skimmed and noticed there was a follow-up many years later, however since it said it was an Ancel Keys experiment right at the top of the article I wasn't too interested at that point and didn't read the details.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                              The issue was that they were not volunteers who had given informed consent. They were conscientious objectors who were drafted and assigned to this project, which seriously affected their health (as it could have been predicted to happen). The fact that the experiment was run at all is in itself unethical.

                              I wonder if there was any health follow-up on participants over the years.
                              According to the doc, they did give informed consent, there were over 100 applicants to the ad.
                              "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X