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Opinions on shakiness and cheese, please!

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  • Opinions on shakiness and cheese, please!

    Hello, all.

    I'm new here (from the UK) but have read, if not understood, most things on this amazing website. And now I could do with some opinions if you'd be kind enough...

    I started on 100% paleo over two weeks ago now (except a few tubs of hummous, as I didn't realise at first that chickpeas were Not On). So far, so great - four or five days of feeling ucky last week (carb 'flu I'm assuming), but wonderfully improved mood, fantastic new precision/spatial sense of where my body is, massively reduced feeling of general lumpiness, bouncing (cough) out of bed in the morning, and the most marvellous consistent energy levels, instead of trembly every four hours or so.

    But. Yesterday was a tough physical day for me - I work in an office during the week and garden for customers at the weekends - yesterday I did nine straight hours of mowing, weeding, leaf-clearing, tree-felling and some fence repairs. It was a revelation to be able to do all that and STILL bounce home and wonder what I could do next. Wonderful. But this morning... Despite having got through an avocado, 100g of fatty beef, 100g of salmon, a whole packet of spinach, half a tub of cream in my 2 coffees, a boiled egg and a handful of tomatoes - by 12.00 I had seriously bad low blood sugar shakes. Worse than I used to have when I stuffed myself full of bread.

    So what have I missed? Breakfast yesterday was a massive heap of roasted cauliflower, roasted carrots and boiled eggs, so I thought I'd covered the carb element. Conventional wisdom in the climbing community is that you carb load BEFORE the exercise - should I have done it afterwards? And I did have two small glasses of wine last night, but would that really have affected my insulin levels 16 hours later?

    Any opinions gratefully received - I don't want to bugger this up through ignorance!

  • #2
    Doh!

    The cheese bit...

    Meant to say - more of the above foods didn't help, until I ate a slab of cheddar with half an inch of butter of top. My new favourite food. Instant happiness and the shakes stopped. But surely my morning's intake gave me enough fat?!

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    • #3
      Originally posted by CheeseFiend View Post
      Doh!

      The cheese bit...

      Meant to say - more of the above foods didn't help, until I ate a slab of cheddar with half an inch of butter of top. My new favourite food. Instant happiness and the shakes stopped. But surely my morning's intake gave me enough fat?!
      I love you. Ɛ><3

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      • #4
        Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
        I love you. Ɛ><3
        Well, thank you. I rather like you too.

        Since giving up sugar and wheaty/gluteny things, I've been amazed how wonderful everything else tastes. Fat, mainly, but I've always loved meat fat so no news there. But cheese... and butter... I would bite you if you were holding it.

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        • #5
          Cheese is a lot of fat and some protein. So I'd say you are probably eating too many carbs. See what happens when you reduce them in proportion.

          Also, it takes time for your body to adjust to the new diet and alter it's systems functions. Normalizing blood sugars typically takes a few months.
          "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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          • #6
            Months!?

            Bugger.

            So... you think the spinach this morning was a bad plan? Or the veg the day before? Actually, I suppose I am still trapped in the mindset of 'if in doubt, eat a load of veg'. And I do keep seeing people comment about 'if in doubt, eat more fat'. In fact, the fact that the fat made me feel instantly better should be a clue. Or should it?

            The thing is, while I'm transitioning still, I still don't know whether to trust my body's frantic signalling for what it thinks it wants. It badly, BADLY, wanted sugar until I gave it cheese, but I was fantasising about ramming down giant bars of milk chocolate, and I don't even like chocolate. So my cues are way out of whack.

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            • #7
              Exactly, we're all fully propagandized from birth almost. We think we'll die without carbs.

              Yes, habits are hard to change, and we all have developed a lot of bad habits. You body will probably adjust sooner than your mind will. Although many of the body builders here still recommend 'carb-loading', most real paleos have given that up. But does this really make sense if you find you have more energy on higher fats?
              Here's a good example:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TeSnXXBqCc

              One of the things we all learn here is how to listen to your body. Most of us had never done that before, and our bodies are so confused they've almost given up signaling. And it takes time to distinguish between your mind wanting to continue bad habits and what you're body is telling you. Really, a LOT of changes occur, and they take time. Sorry about that but it's really true.

              How about trying this - pick a level of macro proportions that is comfortable for you. Use a nutrition tracker, there are many. I have been using paleotrack.com, and easy one but there are better ones. Spend 4-5 days, not changing what you eat, just tracking it. Then pick a level and stick with it for a month. Mine is 65% fats, 20% protein, 15% carbs. (I'm gaining very slowly.) After a month you should be able to start trusting your body more (except for sugar (glucose)). If you need more energy, eat more good, healthy fats.

              Cheese is good, great even, and the harder the better.
              Last edited by Cryptocode; 04-21-2013, 01:10 PM.
              "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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              • #8
                Thank you, Crypto - really appreciate the time you've taken to explain.

                I just tried the tracker thing, and it appears my protein is too high relative to fat? Maybe?

                It reckons I should be aiming for about 1,400 calories per day (I'm 5'6" and about 8.5-9 stone - don't have any scales so can't check), and I'm struggling to get over 1,000 since I feel too full to stuff more food down. Of those, today's example is 11g carbs, 76g fat, 63g protein, and 8g sugar (damn that half apple).

                Having written it down, that looks a pitifully small amount - the tracker says I will be dead of starvation whilst weighing 140lbs if I carry on this way

                So how do I get more fat? I'm not so worried about the carbs, since I do have days when I'm mostly on veg and it'll even out during the week.

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                • #9
                  More adjustment. Would you tell me the macronutrient %s and then total calories. That's what we use since don't often weigh ourselves or our food. Also would you change 'stone' into lbs. Isn't sugar counted as part of carbs?

                  Don't worry about the total calories unless you're gaining weight and don't want to. Also, don't worry about loosing weight unless you're hungry. Are you hungry?
                  "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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                  • #10
                    Gawd, I don't know! It's just myfitnesspal, and I can't claim to understand what they're telling me.

                    Hold on, I'll have a rummage around and see what I can translate.

                    Right - just checked the definition of 'macronutrient', so that's, erm... 1,063 calories, with, erm... maybe it wasn't in grams? Hang on, if I add up all the grams of everything that should do it? So - 7% carbs, 47% fat, 39% protein, and 5% sugar. (Or 12% carbs as you say carbs and sugar are the same). So less protein and more fat? Even I can't handle even more cheese - is there a high-fat food list somewhere around, as I can't recall seeing one. I'll have a quick look.

                    8.5 - 9 stone is 119 - 126lbs.

                    I don't know if I'm losing weight - I'm changing shape certainly, with less bloat around the middle clothes are baggier - but that's not the same thing. I'm not hungry, no, so yes, you're right, who cares if myfitnesspal thinks I'm going to collapse into a ditch as an overweight skeleton. I'm not really in it for weight loss - I wanted to feel healthy, alert, alive, frisky as a labrador and twice as cheerful. And that appears to be happening.

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                    • #11
                      Oh dear. Here I am trying to make this all much easier. LOL!

                      How about trying paleotrack.com just for the 1 day. See if it gives you the same result. It will also tell you if you're paleo in foods.

                      So, 1063 cal; 47% fat, 39% protein, 12% carbs. That's too much protein, try for 25% protein and put the rest in fats or some in carbs. So say you aim at 60% fats, 25% protein, 15% carbs. That should result in no weight change. Try to maintain that for 2 months but adjust the fats-carbs if you're gaining or loosing.

                      Try giving up all grains, at least for 2 months, not just sugar and wheaty/gluteny things. This will give you much better body signals on where you are health-wise. Be very careful about reading all the ingredients of everything.

                      You're female, 5'6", 126 lbs, sounds great. "I wanted to feel healthy, alert, alive, frisky as a labrador and twice as cheerful. And that appears to be happening." You're a perfect candidate here.

                      What are healthy fats? Meat, particularly beef, fats. Bacon fat. Butter, Cheese, Avacado, Coconut OIl, Olive Oil, Nuts, Milk fats if you tolerate them. Can you get raw milk? If you can afford it get grass-fed meats, pastured eggs, etc. But don't stress that.

                      You don't need to weigh your food, just guess. For example: 2 cups chopped greens, measured raw (then you can cook if you like), 2 oz meat is the size of a lipstick tube, for veggies just enter how many, (1 turnip, 1 avacado), 2 Tbl or tsp butter, etc.

                      You're exactly right. If you're at the weight you're happy with, forget completely about calories. Only listen to your body. Every individual is unique. There is no one-size-fits all, and calories-in do not equal calories-out.

                      After you're past carb-flu, start in on Mark's exercise program or cross-fit.

                      EDIT: Change the 58% fats to 60%. I failed to convert from lbs back to %. Forgot to mention eggs, they're a great souce of fats and protein and fantastic micronutrients.
                      Last edited by Cryptocode; 04-22-2013, 04:18 PM.
                      "When the search for truth is confused with political advocacy, the pursuit of knowledge is reduced to the quest for power." - Alston Chase

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CheeseFiend View Post
                        . . . 2 coffees . . . shakes. . . So what have I missed?

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                        • #13
                          Thank you! I'll try the paleotrack thing and (I presume you can?) ask it to track the percentages for me. At least until I know what I'm supposed to be looking at.

                          I have gone cold turkey on all grains, legumes (but not before I planted out my peas, not having realised that's what they were. Doh.) and sugar as sugar, as opposed to in the form of carbs. Thanks for the your list: fortunately my nearest neighbour keeps ducks and chickens, so that's free free-range eggs sorted, and there's a raw milk cheese-making farm based just a few miles away, which makes me so very happy. I already eat the other things, so I guess adding fish, olives*, lamb, greek yoghurt, duck, plus my spinach/cabbage/asparagus/mushroom/carrot obsessions will give me the basic diet. Excellent. And it's almost samphire season here.

                          * I actually checked the label of a jar of olives today, and it had wheatflour listed. Wheatflour. What on earth for!? I had better leave double the time for my next shopping trip, since I have a feeling it's going to be more of an exercise in literacy and comprehension than previously.

                          I am very grateful for your help. Sometimes even the most obvious things are only obvious once you've actually taken them in...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 2ndChance View Post
                            Gaaaaarn.

                            Although I did wonder if I might have become more sensitive to caffeine on a different food intake. But no. It was just the one day.

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                            • #15
                              My sensitivity to caffeine is definitely something I became more aware of the more I detoxed. Now I have a cup of green tea in the morning a few times a week and even that makes me a little jittery. Just don't rule it out!

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