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Foods to avoid to get a flat stomach

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  • #31
    This is just a theory:

    Maybe people shouldn't focus on weight loss from the first day on. Most overweight people are malnourished. Combine that with too little fat in their system and thus the leptin screams for food. When we start eating good food our bodies are catching up and possibly gain even more weight.

    I know a guy, he's over 40, he has been overweight for a long time, started eating good food as much as he wanted, gained even more weight, walked around with all this extra weight for 2 years and finally his body started losing.
    well then

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    • #32
      So I have been playing with gut flora for a while now, with some good early signs of success. I went primal two years ago (I am about 99/01 in terms of strictness). I lost 10 kg fast and then plateaued. For over a year. I was stuck at 90kg, no matter what I did.

      I get 8 - 10 hours of sleep every night. Maybe once every four or five months I get less than 8 hours.

      I started working out. Lifting heavy things (put on nice muscle), sprint, and average around 16km a week walked. I stayed stuck at 90 kg.

      So I started playing with fats and carbohydrates to figure out if that made a difference. Stayed at 90 kg.

      Started intermittent fasting, to see if that would help (which I still do). Stayed at 90 kg.

      Started counting calories. Tried lowering to 2500 calories a day for 6 weeks. Stayed at 90 kg. Tried lowering to 2000 calories a day for 6 weeks. Stayed at 90 kg. Tried increasing to 2500 calories a week. Stayed at 90 kg.

      So now the only thing left I can think of is gut flora. Gonna go to town trying to feed the good gut flora, and inhibit growth of the bad gut flora. I'm stuck wearing 34" dress pants, and I want to make it to a comfortable 31" or 32" pair of pants.

      --Me

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      • #33
        Originally posted by adamm View Post
        So I have been playing with gut flora for a while now, with some good early signs of success. I went primal two years ago (I am about 99/01 in terms of strictness). I lost 10 kg fast and then plateaued. For over a year. I was stuck at 90kg, no matter what I did.

        I get 8 - 10 hours of sleep every night. Maybe once every four or five months I get less than 8 hours.

        I started working out. Lifting heavy things (put on nice muscle), sprint, and average around 16km a week walked. I stayed stuck at 90 kg.

        So I started playing with fats and carbohydrates to figure out if that made a difference. Stayed at 90 kg.

        Started intermittent fasting, to see if that would help (which I still do). Stayed at 90 kg.

        Started counting calories. Tried lowering to 2500 calories a day for 6 weeks. Stayed at 90 kg. Tried lowering to 2000 calories a day for 6 weeks. Stayed at 90 kg. Tried increasing to 2500 calories a week. Stayed at 90 kg.

        So now the only thing left I can think of is gut flora. Gonna go to town trying to feed the good gut flora, and inhibit growth of the bad gut flora. I'm stuck wearing 34" dress pants, and I want to make it to a comfortable 31" or 32" pair of pants.

        --Me
        It could be any number of things. But if you're really interested in healing the gut then concentrate on a diet of healthy fats (coconut milk or oil especially) and lots of fermented veggies. Eat meat. Avoid dairy as some people do poorly with this for gut health.

        You might want also want to consider a "GAPS" protocol of eating for a while.

        http://gapsdiet.com/The_Diet.html
        Last edited by Drumroll; 04-19-2013, 03:31 PM.
        "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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        • #34
          Thank you again, drumroll. I will take all of your comments under advisement
          be the hair that knots with my hair
          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          primal since oct. 1, 2012

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          • #35
            Thanks everyone for all your informative replies!

            One thing I'm almost certain of, is that I don't think I eat too much fat. In fact, I don't think I'm eating enough of it because I feel like I'm craving it.

            Drumroll, thank you for the excellent sounding advice. I do a 2.4 km walk three times a week, and sometimes another 1.4 km walk twice a week. Do I need to do more? How much walking should I do exactly?
            The only weight training I do is pushups, because I don't have access to weights or a gym, but I'm going to try and fix that.

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            • #36
              SPrinting and IF-ing is helping me after a long time of no lose since I started primal. I maintain on normal eating Primal. I'm losing on IF-ing and sprinting!! give it try! xD

              you only need 20 minutes of sprinting. it's not long at all!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                It could be any number of things. But if you're really interested in healing the gut then concentrate on a diet of healthy fats (coconut milk or oil especially) and lots of fermented veggies. Eat meat. Avoid dairy as some people do poorly with this for gut health.

                You might want also want to consider a "GAPS" protocol of eating for a while.

                The Diet
                I just went over the GAPS diet recommended foods and realized I am much more careful than even their recommendations... For example, I am very careful with the nightshades, even though they are in the recommended section of the GAPS diet.

                I'm hoping that removing all sugar and all dairy (except butter) from my diet may make a difference in gut flora. Only time will tell.

                --Me

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                • #38
                  I hate to be a killjoy, but I have to add that it us easier for done people to get toned, flat abs than others. There's a big genetics factor there, too, along with diet and exercise. Some slimmer people have effortless 6 packs whereas others with a similar body composition will not have any tone at all.
                  F 28/5'4/100 lbs

                  "I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath; do your research."

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by adamm View Post
                    I just went over the GAPS diet recommended foods and realized I am much more careful than even their recommendations... For example, I am very careful with the nightshades, even though they are in the recommended section of the GAPS diet.

                    I'm hoping that removing all sugar and all dairy (except butter) from my diet may make a difference in gut flora. Only time will tell.

                    --Me
                    Removing sugar and processed foods (if any) will help to starve out the bad bacteria, but to replenish the good guys you need to add them back in....you can't just 'feed' the bacteria that you have, if that makes sense. Kefir, fermented veggies and a probiotic supplement will do the job nicely.

                    The one thing to note about the GAPS protocol is there is a process called Intro. Look into that. For gut healing you need to go thru Intro which is quite different than the full GAPS diet. Lots of bone broth, well cooked veggies and gently cooked meats...quite restrictive but a very good combination because it is both a healing diet as well as an elimination diet....it really helps you to identify foods that are giving your body trouble

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                      Choco, you keep saying dietary fat is more likely to be stored as fat and carbs and protein not. Yet, I've not ever ONCE seen you offer a SHRED of scientific proof to back up your statement to this effect.

                      If it's so worthy of the soapbox you shout it from, find the proof.

                      And you know exactly what I mean.
                      I actually believe the metabolic processes shown to rid the body of excess carbohydrate have been shown to be quite detrimental. The metabolic byproduct of doing so is what causes a great deal of collateral damage. So fat being able to be stored AND accessed directly in its FFA state should actually be considered a very positive HUMAN adaptation to storing and accessing excess energy when needed. Many times people miss that point. The average human animal has about 2000 calories in stored glycogen in their body at any time....but TENS of thousands of energy available as fat. Why not eat your food in ratios that approximate your bodies makeup? Yes even a lean individual has this much fat to access. Thats actually a PHD idea right there, but I agree and it actually brings you in line with Primal recs.

                      But, to get lean..... eat tons of meat and eggs (protein). Avoid most things that don't come with a good deal of protein and exogenous sources of calories. Lift heavy twice a week. Walk alot. The end. Works for a semi-healthy person, but I actually agree with gadsie that in some cases your focus shouldn't be so much on weight anyhow. Focusing on health first is never a bad thing. It isn't necessarily the getting fat that is unhealthy, but when you stop getting fat and physiological breakdowns occur.
                      Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-20-2013, 08:18 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                        Choco, you keep saying dietary fat is more likely to be stored as fat and carbs and protein not. Yet, I've not ever ONCE seen you offer a SHRED of scientific proof to back up your statement to this effect.

                        If it's so worthy of the soapbox you shout it from, find the proof.

                        And you know exactly what I mean.
                        That is how the body works.

                        When you consume dietary fat, you have to burn through that dietary fat until you touch your stored body fat.

                        When you consume dietary carbohydrate, your body preferentially burns glucose and the fat is stored.

                        You have to consume something like <10% calories from fat for de novo lipogenesis to really occur (conversion of carbohydrate to body fat), and of course, you need to be in a caloric excess.

                        What you're saying doesn't make any sense. Fat is already fat. When you eat fat, it's stored until you use it. If you come in at a net caloric deficit, you'll lose weight. If you come in at a surplus, you'll gain weight.

                        How We Get Fat | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                        • #42
                          Nah, what drumroll is saying is your stance is biased. You make a point to keep stating how easily fat is stored (as if we should think this is a bad thing!) without taking into account the increased capacity to also access said fat for energy when fat metabolism is upregulated.

                          You say its all about caloric surplus or deficit, but continue to be macronutrient biased in the rest of your response.

                          Basically you contradict yourself repeatedly. Quite simply if your stance is that losing weight is all about restricting energy making any further recommendations as to macro breakdown is illogical on your part.

                          My stance is that macros matter. They matter for body composition and there are different strategies for each individuals circumstance and goals.

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                          • #43
                            I like how J. Stanton framed the CICO debate in the following.
                            Worth a read if you haven't seen it.

                            There Is No Such Thing As A “Calorie” (To Your Body) &#45; GNOLLS.ORG

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by magno View Post
                              I like how J. Stanton framed the CICO debate in the following.
                              Worth a read if you haven't seen it.

                              There Is No Such Thing As A “Calorie” (To Your Body) &#45; GNOLLS.ORG
                              The usual NONSENSE from people that want to believe in magic! Let me see, we measure the energy in food that a person eat, and we measure the energy that goes out in the poo. What? - there are calories missing from the imput, I wonder where they went, because it's sooo unlikely that some of it was used for energy and maybe some of it stored in the body, oh wait...
                              "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                              - Schopenhauer

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                                Nah, what drumroll is saying is your stance is biased. You make a point to keep stating how easily fat is stored (as if we should think this is a bad thing!) without taking into account the increased capacity to also access said fat for energy when fat metabolism is upregulated.
                                The reason for my stance is fat upregulates the metabolism much less than carbohydrate and protein, and it generates the least amount of insulin, which is an anabolic growth hormone. Athletes and bodybuilders typically eat a lower fat, high carbohydrate, high protein diet because of these reasons. Carbohydrate and protein has the highest burn rates, generates the most amount of insulin (protein typically generates more insulin than carbohydrate, which is a common misconception) and produces more CO2 in the mitochondria, which indicates a faster metabolism. I'm not a fan of fat because it takes the body next to no effort to process. It slows the metabolic rate comparatively, and lipid peroxidation generates more stress hormones than glucose peroxidation. We burn sugar preferentially for a reason - it supports a healthier metabolism and generates less stress hormones than the oxidation of fat.

                                Athletes and bodybuilders know that high fat intakes typically lead to the slowest metabolism and the least desirable body composition. Yes, some of that may be because of poor diets high in unsaturates vs saturates, and tropical societies seem to be immune to this thanks to the huge intake of saturates and MCT's from coconut, but for most of us I don't see that as a sustainable diet. If I were to advocate for a higher fat diet, I'd recommend the fat comes from coconut, grassfed dairy and leaner red meats to minimize PUFA exposure and keep SFA intake higher than MUFA intake. It's just easier to eat lots of leaner red meats, fruits and starches for me (and probably most), so I roll with that.
                                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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