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Are there any scientific studies showing the negative effects from PUFA's?

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  • #46
    It may not be the nuts that were eaten, but what those that didn't eat nuts were eating instead or how they were living.
    Nuts are more often eaten by health conscious individuals.
    "There are no short cuts to enlightenment, the journey is the destination, you have to walk this path alone"

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    • #47
      Originally posted by jmsmall View Post
      There was a well publicized study of 7th Day Adventists a number of years ago showing that the people who ate nuts had lower incidence of cardiovascular disease than the others:

      Adventist Health Studies - LLU Adventist Health Study

      As far as the low carb discussion, for a balanced discussion by someone who does not have a website that is designed to sell things, go to eatingacademy.com and spend some time there. The head of the Duke Metabolic Clinic is treating type II diabetes with carbohydrate restriction and gets excellent results.

      Your LDL is at first scary, but the followup discussion was not bad. If you have lost a lot of weight recently, it would not be surprising to have a temporary increase in total cholesterol and LDL-C; mobilizing fat out of your fat cells also mobilizes cholesterol in the fat cell membranes. I don't have time to look up the studies but I think if you are actively losing weight it might be a good idea to wait until you are more stable before getting too worried about LDL-C.

      also LDL-C is not a very good marker of risk compared to LDL particle count from Liposcience or Apo-B levels from a variety of places. But I think the same warning should apply if you're in the midst of weight loss.
      If you are talking to me, no my weight has been steady for at least 6 months. Attia has backed away from his strong LDL-P comments in his cholesterol series.

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      • #48
        I was talking to you, yes. I don't have a great explanation for your LDL-C but I've heard that some people do elevate their LDL-C on low carb diets. (I do, just not nearly as much.)

        Thanks for the update on LDL-P, will look into it (in my nonexistent spare time...)
        10/2/12: 169 lbs, 37"waist
        Now: low 150's, 33" waist
        Blog: http://paleopathologist.com/

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        • #49
          Originally posted by jmsmall View Post
          I was talking to you, yes. I don't have a great explanation for your LDL-C but I've heard that some people do elevate their LDL-C on low carb diets. (I do, just not nearly as much.)

          Thanks for the update on LDL-P, will look into it (in my nonexistent spare time...)
          Thanks. I wasn't trying to be a smarta$$ by asking if you were talking to me...I just wanted to be sure. As far as I can determine, no studies exist which show very high HDL-C, eg 130, is heart healthy. Maybe it is, maybe not. I would bet my entire retirement savings that my super high LDL-C was a direct result of my very high cholesterol/saturated fat diet. The week before my blood was drawn I ate a lb of beef liverwurst, a dozen eggs and tons of coconut. I believe I am a dietary cholesterol hyper-absorber which apparently 15-20% of us are.

          One thing for sure, you can find multiple studies and case histories which prove whichever diet/nutrition/health theory you believe to be true.
          Last edited by Artbuc; 04-16-2013, 08:37 AM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
            Already covered this earlier in the thread I thought. Quite simply nuts are not the exception to the well sourced and well stored rule. Just as much care has to be taken in choosing and storing nuts as any of your other food. If you go pain staking lengths to assure the quality and storage of your beef to prevent spoilage or contamination do the same for nuts and seeds. Nobody can convince me that these things are not fit for human consumption even in vast quantity as long as we are talking whole form. I take an evolutionary approach to this and nuts and seeds have made up a substantial portion of our diet for quite some time.
            I store whole, raw nuts in the fridge and nut meal (which I use extremely sparingly) in the freezer.

            Still, you can't guarantee two things:

            1.) How the nuts got to the store. They may be compromised before you even purchase them. Some of those tractor trailers get unbelievably hot, and who knows how long they've sat on the shelves or what the processing conditions were.

            2.) The oxidation rate when inside the human body.

            #2 worries me the most. We know that seed oils and fish oils oxidize rapidly upon ingestion. Whole, fresh fish seem to be protective against this, at least to a degree (I'm not sure how they compare to a very stable meat such as beef). I don't know how nuts would react. I'm assuming a whole walnut would be considerably more resistant to oxidation than isolated walnut oil, but is it 100% perfect? I doubt anything is. Everything we ingest oxidizes to some degree. I don't think it's possible to eat a single meal that won't result in some degree of free radical damage. I mean how can it? Aging is unavoidable. But I'd expect nuts to promote more damage than beef or coconut. How much? I have no idea, I'm just making educated guesses. My personal opinion is that nuts are one of the "least ideal" paleo foods, and I try and make them the smallest part of my diet.
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
              ...
              Have you read about the Loma Linda Adventists? I'm curious as to your opinion. It's epidemiological of course, but very interesting and well done.

              I just find it interesting that they avoid meat (mostly) and eat lots of nuts, yet have very good health by any standard. (Not just compared to SAD.) They have no problems with grains or PUFAs. (Avocados, nuts, veggie oils...etc) They have extremely low rates of diabetes. If PUFAs are the cause, as you say, then they shouldn't have high levels of protection.

              My theory is that PUFAs are horrid when not in it's natural form. Raw nuts, avocados, fish...they all seem to correlate with good health. (Yes, correlation =/= causation). It's just when we extract PUFAs and over-process them that they cause their severe damage. For instance, corn oil seems to be one of the worst things you can put in your body...and it is virtually impossible to get in nature...it requires vast processing. I simply can't find it in me to fear PUFAs in natural form. (Though I agree on your opinion about transportation....here in Texas even raw nuts have likely sat in 150 degree trailers for extended amounts of time. That probably isn't good.)

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