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  • avoiding pork and chicken?

    Is there anything in pork and chicken needed for optimal health, that isn't in beef, lamb, seafood?

    I don't have access to pastured pork and chicken, am thinking to eliminate them from my diet.

  • #2
    Originally posted by girlhk View Post
    Is there anything in pork and chicken needed for optimal health, that isn't in beef, lamb, seafood?

    I don't have access to pastured pork and chicken, am thinking to eliminate them from my diet.
    Go right ahead. You wouldn't be missing a thing. And your O3:O6 ratio will be better.

    If you miss bacon, US Wellness meats sells Beef Bacon.

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    • #3
      Beef, lamb and seafood are fine. Pork and poultry are not necessary but many of us like them for variety. You don't have to do 100% pastured if you decide you want pork or chicken once in a while.
      Ancestral Health Info - My blog about Primal and the general ancestral health movement. Site just remodeled using HTML5/CSS3 instead of Wordpress.

      My MDA Friday success story - Stubborn Senior's Testimonial

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      • #4
        No pork or chicken for me! They're generally fed corn or soy = not good.
        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

        - Ray Peat

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        • #5
          Pork tends to be slightly higher in overall micronutrient quantity for a lot of vitamins and minerals as opposed to beef and lamb (but not fish). The difference is not really that much of one however. Also less risk of getting too much iron since it has quite a BIT less than red meat and you CAN get too much iron.

          But these are not really huge concerns.

          I eat chicken when others make it or I'm going out for wings but I NEVER make it for myself. So mostly I avoid it. Pork is mostly the occasional packet of the ground stuff because I have an AMAZING source of pastured pork and it tastes GREAT in my "combo" meatloaf (ground beef, lamb, and pork). But that's about it.

          I don't notice I feel any worse for it.
          "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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          • #6
            Here in the UK it is easy to get hold of free range (which I think you call pastured) pork and outdoor chickens which eat grubs, slugs etc etc. The eggs are just great and I eat pork and chicken at least once a week. But also lamb, beef, fish etc - as long as it is naturally (or as naturally as possible given that it isn'e actually wild) reared. I don't worry about the O6 / O3 ratio as I feel that the free range aspect helps even that out, as does lots of fish... It's the flavour - good pork is in a class of its own, and a well roast free range chicken is sublime!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
              Pork tends to be slightly higher in overall micronutrient quantity for a lot of vitamins and minerals as opposed to beef and lamb (but not fish). The difference is not really that much of one however. Also less risk of getting too much iron since it has quite a BIT less than red meat and you CAN get too much iron.

              But these are not really huge concerns.

              I eat chicken when others make it or I'm going out for wings but I NEVER make it for myself. So mostly I avoid it. Pork is mostly the occasional packet of the ground stuff because I have an AMAZING source of pastured pork and it tastes GREAT in my "combo" meatloaf (ground beef, lamb, and pork). But that's about it.

              I don't notice I feel any worse for it.
              I think the iron issue is worth mentioning. Why would you want to solely sustain on red meat and avoid chicken? Personally that's a bad move, and dammit you'd want as much variety as possible.

              My last blood check showed high iron, i felt pretty crap, definitley overdoing the red meat and to top it off eating offal and whatnot. Primal diet will easily lead to building up of iron stores, which has been linked to cancers, inflammation etc, particularly because the primal minimizes foods which prevent nutrient absorption and probably 8 out of 10 times your eating some vitamin c with that red meat.

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              • #8
                I buy most of my meats and poultry from a farm run by Mennonites. They have free range chicken, pork, beef and turkey. They occasionally have rabbit. Their pork tastes so much better than grocery store. I also buy eggs from them. The only thing I don't buy from them is their ground beef it just tastes too gamely for me, so I either buy ground bison or regular ground beef at the supermarket.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by zizou View Post
                  I think the iron issue is worth mentioning. Why would you want to solely sustain on red meat and avoid chicken? Personally that's a bad move, and dammit you'd want as much variety as possible.
                  Red meat has a more optimal o3/o6 ratio. Pork, and to a greater extent, poultry, have WAY more o6 than o3 and some people claim that as a result, they've had inflammation issues which is definitely NOT a good thing over a long period.

                  Paul Jaminet of the "Perfect Health Diet" fame refuses to eat pork or ANY poultry for just this reason, as do several other paleo/ancestral health gurus. Matt Lalonde, a noted biochemist has also come straight out and said that grass-fed red meats are a far better choice for overall health and avoiding inflammation and long term issues than pork or poultry and he's studied the chemistry behind this stuff.

                  I'm not saying they're trying to scare us off of pork or chicken forever but they make a good point. Nobody is saying that to have a piece of chicken, or that pork chop is going to kill you, but the suggestion here is merely to make red meats the main focus of the diet with fish a couple of times a week to ensure you're getting the o3 you need. The inflammation issues are worth considering when you realize that inflammation just might be the greatest indicator of future heart disease risk.
                  "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Grassfed beef, pastured eggs, and seafood (not farmed) make up the bulk of my animal protein. I do like pork and chicken though so I have either for a meal or two a week. Bacon is usually reserved for a few weekend breakfasts/brunches a month. I try to use up any of the saved bacon fat before I make more bacon. Doesn't always work out but I try. Pastured bacon is too expensive to waste the fat, lol.

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                    • #11
                      If high iron is an issue you can also do something nice to help control it and Donate Blood.
                      “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                      ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                      And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hedonist2 View Post
                        Beef, lamb and seafood are fine. Pork and poultry are not necessary but many of us like them for variety. You don't have to do 100% pastured if you decide you want pork or chicken once in a while.
                        I hardly ever cook pork or chicken myself, but would have a lot of it when at family or relatives places. I am sure theyre not pastured, as all fresh pork and chicken in Hong Kong come from China.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by zizou View Post
                          I think the iron issue is worth mentioning. Why would you want to solely sustain on red meat and avoid chicken? Personally that's a bad move, and dammit you'd want as much variety as possible.

                          My last blood check showed high iron, i felt pretty crap, definitley overdoing the red meat and to top it off eating offal and whatnot. Primal diet will easily lead to building up of iron stores, which has been linked to cancers, inflammation etc, particularly because the primal minimizes foods which prevent nutrient absorption and probably 8 out of 10 times your eating some vitamin c with that red meat.
                          I never knew high iron could be an issue. I am still nursing a toddler and assume I need more nutrients. Since cutting down on breastfeeding, I noticed diminished appetite and no longer really crave meat. I also feel better without pork or chicken. Then again its conventional meat.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
                            Here in the UK it is easy to get hold of free range (which I think you call pastured) pork and outdoor chickens which eat grubs, slugs etc etc. The eggs are just great and I eat pork and chicken at least once a week. But also lamb, beef, fish etc - as long as it is naturally (or as naturally as possible given that it isn'e actually wild) reared. I don't worry about the O6 / O3 ratio as I feel that the free range aspect helps even that out, as does lots of fish... It's the flavour - good pork is in a class of its own, and a well roast free range chicken is sublime!
                            Personally I wouldn't trust bog standard free range chicken or pork. Just because something is labelled as 'free range' doesn't mean that it is pastured, has access to anything more than a limited outdoor area and is fed anything other than grain. That's not to say that I'm saying you shouldn't eat it - there are a lot worse things, and I suspect it is still better than the average quality of chicken and pork in the US.

                            I do eat quite a lot of pork but I source it very carefully and it is definitely pastured. I eat much less chicken because it is much more difficult to find organic, truly pastured sources of it and even those are sometimes fed grains.

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                            • #15
                              I don't find chicken to be unhealthy. I find beef and lamb to be vastly superior because they are more nutritious, the fatty acid profile is much better and the protein is slightly higher quality, so I eat them far more. However, I'm not going to turn down chicken. I would advocate you choose leaner chicken - I generally go with the breast and roast or saute it to make up for its overall lack of flavor. It's hard to turn down buffalo wings though. So I don't

                              Pork is an entirely different story. I feel it is the least healthy of all meats. I'm not sure if it's due to how similar it is so human tissue, but the body seems to reject it to some degree unless it is cured or acid marinated for a long time. This is definitely worth a read.

                              How Does Pork Prepared in Various Ways Affect the Blood? - Weston A Price Foundation

                              Untreated pork, even the high quality pastured stuff, seems to coagulate the blood. As a result, I purchase very lean pork (loin) and marinate it overnight in acid (vinegar, citrus) or stick to bacon and ham. Fresh pork chops not so much, but I never cared for pork chops anyway.
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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