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Anyone out there porkless Primal?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
    the cannibalism aspect makes me want to eat it even more
    Oh thank god I'm not the only one who thought that.

    Why aren't we also having this discussion about chicken? Poor living conditions, inhumane slaughter, corn/soy diet, high PUFA content. I'm just curious as it seems they would go together in this type of argument, neglecting the "pigs are cute" part (which, going back to the OP, that is kind of what this is about...) Anyway, I'm more concerned with the health aspects.
    Is it weird in here, or is it just me?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ombat View Post
      Oh thank god I'm not the only one who thought that.

      Why aren't we also having this discussion about chicken?
      I agree.

      Just because it seems cannibalistic, what's so bad about that anyway? I get the thing about bacteria and viruses easily infecting human flesh, but is there anything else wrong with that...not that I'm saying cannibalism is awesome; just wondering why it's bad for health.
      My chocolatey Primal journey

      Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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      • #33
        Originally posted by sakura_girl View Post
        I agree.

        Just because it seems cannibalistic, what's so bad about that anyway? I get the thing about bacteria and viruses easily infecting human flesh, but is there anything else wrong with that...not that I'm saying cannibalism is awesome; just wondering why it's bad for health.
        Originally posted by ombat View Post
        Oh thank god I'm not the only one who thought that.

        Why aren't we also having this discussion about chicken? Poor living conditions, inhumane slaughter, corn/soy diet, high PUFA content. I'm just curious as it seems they would go together in this type of argument, neglecting the "pigs are cute" part (which, going back to the OP, that is kind of what this is about...) Anyway, I'm more concerned with the health aspects.
        Cannibalism: remember what happened when people decided to feed cows to cows? Bovine spongiform encephalopathy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

        Pig meat is very inflammatory: I knew this even before I knew what a PUFA or Omega six was. For a few years I was dating a guy who grew up on a farm where they raised their own pigs. Organic, healthy blah blah blah. Anyway, while we were together, he developed a chronic, acute pain in his leg. There were times when he literally couldn't walk more than 100 metres without excruciating agony. We got a lot of taxis He went to doctors, got scans, and he tried everything for it. No one could diagnose what it was.

        Years later we were talking, and I asked about his leg. He told me that he'd gone to a natoropath who told him to give up pork. Guess what? No more pain. His mum is back raising pigs again, but he says that even if he has a bite of an organic piggie he'll start to feel the twinge.

        That's enough evidence for me!

        But in addition to the health aspect, pigs are extremely intelligent animals: more so than dogs. I wouldn't eat dolphin either.

        And yeah. The cuteness factor (that was me, Ombat, not the OP. Not everyone is so superficial about how good looking their food is )

        I would love to have one as a pet but it might be too dangerous...

        chanchi0206.jpg
        "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

        In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

        - Ray Peat

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Dickson View Post
          You really can't kill a pig ethically, primarily because it needs to be bled out.
          patently false. every small mom+pop pork operation i can think of or have seen on tv, etc, does 1 shot to the head, hung up and throat cut immediately. i've even seen some operations actually feed the pig a dish of food so the pig is just nibbling away when it meets its instant demise. as far as i can tell, thats just about the most humane way i can think of dying. practically nobody/no animal dies in their sleep in some sort of fairytale fashion. so i bullet to the brain pretty much seems like a humane death to me.

          that being said, for health reasons, i still limit my pork consumption to once per week, usually some sort of local uncured bacon with my breakfast.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by ombat View Post
            Why aren't we also having this discussion about chicken?
            "Okay, have you ever been around chickens? They are stupid, uncooperative, inconvenient, ill-tempered creatures. They get what they deserve. F*$% chickens" -Mark Rippetoe

            But good point. I limit chicken and pork and meet most of my (significant) needs for meat with delicious ruminants.
            The Champagne of Beards

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            • #36
              Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
              also, baby anythings are cute but when they grow up.. woo. fell down the ugly tree and hit every branch
              Mmm... Suckling pig...

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              • #37
                I would really like to know how we "react to cannibalism". Outside of it being taboo and giving a person the heebee jeebees, what physiological damage does eating humans actually do? And who did the research? Cultures that practiced cannibalism did so ritualistically. Nobody ever eats people as a dietary staple. I can't imagine that it would do any long term damage other than the kind of damage it might do to eat killer whale or some other top-predator species.
                Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                • #38
                  Food for thought: pork is by far the most eaten meat in Japan (not to mention Okinawa). Beef (domestic) is loved of course, but it's much too damned expensive to eat on even a semi-regular basis.
                  Primal food in Japan

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                  • #39
                    It's nice to see the paleo folks drifting away from excessive bacon consumption, because that's a common stereotype amongst the blogosphere.

                    Pork is really nasty. Whenever I ate it, I always felt real awful, an awful feeling so awful it was only rivaled by seed oil consumption, soy(dear god pls no) and nuts(sans peanuts, those are more tolerable to me)
                    Make America Great Again

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                    • #40
                      Hmmm. Whenever I eat a Berkshire pork chop, I feel downright zippy. No ill effects from bacon, either. Different strokes.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Finnegans Wake View Post
                        Different strokes.
                        What you talkin' 'bout, Willis?
                        The Champagne of Beards

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Finnegans Wake View Post
                          I tend to favor beef and lamb over pork and chicken - both because they are ruminant meats and because their economy from sustainbale farms is superior. The pork I do eat (Tamworth, Yorkshire, Berkshire and Large Black pigs) is vastly superior to the horrid stuff from grocery stores, which may as well be boiled rat. As for concerns over evolutionary similarities, we share ~97% of our genes with mice and rats, and that's not stopping me from killing the buggers if they get into the garage over winter and eat my grass seed. Actaully, we share most of our genes with other mammals, inviting the slippery slope argument toward vegetarianism. I understand that killing an animal and eating it is not pretty or happy business, but I have weighed all of this and decided to eat what I eat.

                          Yes, there is the argument that it's easy to eat what others kill, but that's the nature of societies: we have a division of labor, whereby people specialize in doing what others don't wish to do. I don't particularly care about automobile mechanics, so fix me up and get me on my way: here's a swipe of my card, which now enables you to go buy pork: and now the pork farmer can go buy clothing for his family: hooray for cooperation. That said, I think it is instructive for people to know where their food comes from, and moral to choose the most humane and sustainable practices. Vote with your wallet. In this we have the choice to remove power from the shitty conditions at Smithfield farms, and to reward Farmer Smith down the road a bit, with his pigs who have free run of pasture, sunshine, and rooting for apples and food appropriate for a pig.

                          In fact, supporting permaculture and sustainable farms, those with pastured livestock, helps larger environmental issues exacerbated by monoculture (whether they feed CAFOs or vegetarians). It's all synergistic. I'll eat a pork chop to save the earth, thank you.
                          A very solid argument. I don't mean to say that people should kill their own meat by any means. I think it is just a separation from the process that changes the perspective. There are plenty of farmers who have no problem eating pigs that they bled out their selves, but I know others who find the whole process gruesome.



                          Originally posted by ombat View Post
                          Oh thank god I'm not the only one who thought that.

                          Why aren't we also having this discussion about chicken? Poor living conditions, inhumane slaughter, corn/soy diet, high PUFA content. I'm just curious as it seems they would go together in this type of argument, neglecting the "pigs are cute" part (which, going back to the OP, that is kind of what this is about...) Anyway, I'm more concerned with the health aspects.
                          I believe in an evolutionary hierarchy of living things. I think most people do in some form or fashion (except some of the PETA crazies). Of living animals, insects and clams/oysters make up the bottom rung of my ladder. I have never once felt guilt for killing a spider or a beautiful butterfly. Fish take up the next rung, followed by reptiles and birds. A bird feels pain, and has a very basic short-term memory. Beyond that, a chicken doesn't do much. There is no play or higher order of desires.

                          Mammals are near the top. They have longings and desires beyond survival. Even the lowest of mammals has a fairly advanced memory, and play is a large part of the development process.

                          Humans are obviously the top of this pyramid, but I believe there is a sub-step before humans I guess. These animals have fairly advanced cognitive abilities and memories. Primates, dolphins, elephants, and pigs are the most advanced, with mammals that have been domesticated for thousands of generations (cats and dogs) receiving honorable status.

                          There are some interesting things about pigs that most people would be surprised to know. There really isn't another animal that can make as great of a pet one generation in to domestication-- even a wolf can be extremely difficult to train. Additionally, pigs are one of the few animals, along with primates and dolphins, that experience sexual pleasures and desires beyond reproductive purposes (farm jokes aside...)

                          My purpose with this thread was not to make people feel guilty, but to just look at the topic from a different light. It's sort of the "omnivore's dilemma", where mercy and primal desires come to heads.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Dickson View Post
                            I think it is just a separation from the process that changes the perspective.
                            Agree completely. There are children today who don't realize that vegetables are grown in dirt. Baby carrots just come in plastic bags, e.g.

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                            • #44
                              I have to agree on all sides, because having my own opinion of whether bacon is right or wrong to eat is not worth my time. I was eating three pounds a week, noticed that was quite a bit of salt - even though I know I just pee it all out - it's a lot of salt, and now have only one or two pounds a week. Trader Joe's ends and pieces. If I were a millionaire, I would definitely hunt wild boar or buy pastured bacon. But I'm not. So I can't.
                              Crohn's, doing SCD

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                              • #45
                                you could grow your own bacon on your big back yard
                                beautiful
                                yeah you are

                                Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                                lol

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