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First Bloodwork Since LCHF

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Artbuc View Post
    No obvious symptoms....just speculating about a possible explanation for the dramatic increase in LDL-C.
    Isn't this an estimated quantity using a certain formula ? I would read Peter Attia's series of articles on cholesterol (9 articles IIRC). Look them up on eatingacademy.com

    It is not so much the cholesterol content that matters but the number of these lipoprotein particles. These particles carry more than cholesterol by the way and it is not the cholesterol per se that is problematic (after all, cholesterol is vital and sent where damages must be fixed).

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    • #17
      Originally posted by dkJames View Post
      Isn't this an estimated quantity using a certain formula ? I would read Peter Attia's series of articles on cholesterol (9 articles IIRC). Look them up on eatingacademy.com

      It is not so much the cholesterol content that matters but the number of these lipoprotein particles. These particles carry more than cholesterol by the way and it is not the cholesterol per se that is problematic (after all, cholesterol is vital and sent where damages must be fixed).
      Yes, it is a calculation. My LDL-C would be around 217 using the Iranian formula. I have read Attia's series and he has subsequently backed away from his strong statements re LDL-P. Attia has promised future articles to discuss the use of statins and new thinking re CVD/CHD risk factors.

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      • #18
        Well you don't mention how old you are or whether you have any history of heart problems. On the former I won't guess, but with the latter I'll assume not.
        To me that doesn't seem too bad. I'm actually envious because although my LDL went down my trigs went up and HDL went slightly down.
        Your doctor sounds like he has a little bit of tunnel vision if he's really freaking out about that. By CW standards it's somewhat concerning, but not warranting a panic. Your HDL is up and your trigs are down. You're making progress, it doesn't seem unreasonable to wait at least another 6 months to see what the LDL does.

        Also, like your doctor, my dad had a heart attack even-though he'd never had cholesterol levels outside normal range.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by KimchiNinja View Post
          it depends on something about dense particles or whatever, can someone explain this please
          I can give it a whack for you. Basically, LDL-C is a measurement (calculation actually, but ignore that for now) of the amount of cholesterol in LDL Particles.

          So, to use a Peter Attia analogy, it's like your bloodstream is a river, LDL-C is the amount of cargo on the ships (apolipoproteins) and LDL-P is the number of ships.

          So you could have a large LDL-C with a small LDL-P (few ships, lots of cargo) or a small LDL-C with a large LDL-P (lots of ships with very little cargo). We know the former tends to be more dangerous than the latter (it's the ships that run into the artery walls), although we don't exactly know why.

          So LDL-C, the total amount of cargo on the river, isn't particularly informative.

          All that said, with the OP's HDL being so high, CVD risk is quite low from the information I've seen.
          The Champagne of Beards

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          • #20
            Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
            Do you drink French Pressed coffee?
            How does french pressed coffee effect cholesterol?
            Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
              How does french pressed coffee effect cholesterol?
              There's a diterpene molecule called cafestol in coffee that's not filtered through paper which can bind to LDL receptors and (if my understanding of the mechanism is correct) prevent/slow the clearing of LDL particles from the bloodstream.
              The Champagne of Beards

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              • #22
                Thanks Rich, my husband drinks a couple cups of french pressed a day and that may be effecting his LDL.
                Sounds like he may have to switch to a different method for his caffeine fix.
                Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
                  There's a diterpene molecule called cafestol in coffee that's not filtered through paper which can bind to LDL receptors and (if my understanding of the mechanism is correct) prevent/slow the clearing of LDL particles from the bloodstream.
                  Ah, I am a French press person and yes, I have high LDL, for who knows what reasons. I am learning.... And yes, I eat a lot of dairy.
                  Last edited by anna5; 04-11-2013, 08:32 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Aeropress is the answer. Paper filter diterpene reduction with better flavor than a French Press.
                    The Champagne of Beards

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                    • #25
                      I reviewed bloodwork results with my doc yesterday. I was pretty upset as it was a bizarre Alice in Wonderland conversation. He opened with "This is the most atherogenic lipid panel I have ever seen." Here is a rough paraphrase of the key points:

                      Me: Isn't the high (130) HDL-C good?
                      Doc: Maybe, depends on the type of HDL.
                      Me: Shouldn't we run an NMR profile to find out?
                      Doc: Maybe a VAP test would be helpful.
                      Me: I thought VAP tests were not standardized and perhaps unreliable.
                      Doc: Silence.
                      Me: Maybe I over corrected in my attempt to control blood glucose. I think I am eating too much saturated fat, especially coconut which I have been eating as a staple.
                      Doc: Why are you worried about blood glucose, your A1c is great at 5.1.
                      Me: It is great because I worked so hard to control it with my VLCHF diet. Actually, I thought it would have been a little lower.
                      Doc: WHAT? No one ever has an A1c lower than 5.1! I see you have never taken statins, why not?
                      Me: I am concerned about side-effects and I am not convinced that lowering LDL-C using statins will actually reduce my risk of a heart attack or stroke. Do you think other markers may be more predictive, eg trigs/HDL-C?
                      Doc: Maybe, they are doing that study now. New thinking is LDL-C does not cause CHD. The real problem is inflammation.
                      Me: Yes, that is what I believe. That is why I work so hard to avoid postprandial spikes in blood sugar.
                      Doc: Postprandial spikes are meaningingless unless you are going over 210. Your A1c is great so you do not have to worry about postprandial spikes.
                      Me: If LDL-C does not cause CHD, why should I take statins?
                      Doc: Statins may help reduce inflammation.
                      Me: Back to the VAP test, will it tell me anything about HDL? Will it tell me if my high HDL-C is good or bad?
                      Doc: No, the VAP test will not tell you anything about your HDL.
                      Me: Do you believe large fluffy LDL-C is less harmful than small dense LDL-C?
                      Doc: We do not know. Maybe.

                      So, he opens by telling me I have the most atherogenic lipid panel he has ever seen and proceeds to tell me that current thinking is serum cholesterol does not cause CHD/CVD. And, he tells me postprandial blood sugar spikes to 210 are ok.

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                      • #26
                        So, a while back, someone posted this link to a discussion of hypothyroidism by the Perfect Health Diet People. Hypothyroidism Archives - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet On this page, they discuss one theory of why people who eat paleo sometimes have high cholesterol. The theory is that VLC leads to hypothyroidism, which, in turn, leads to high cholesterol. I only skimmed the stuff, but it may be worth your while to read through it.

                        I plan on getting blood work done in the near future. The last time I had it done was years ago (2009, I believe). I'm curious to see what my lipid panel looks like. My 2009 numbers were any conventional doctor's dream.
                        Last edited by diene; 04-12-2013, 10:38 AM. Reason: cosmetic/grammatical correction

                        My journal

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by serenity View Post
                          So, a while back, someone posted this link to a discussion of hypothyroidism by the Perfect Health Diet People. Hypothyroidism Archives - Perfect Health Diet | Perfect Health Diet On this page, they discuss one theory of why people who eat paleo sometimes have high cholesterol. The theory is that VLC leads to hypothyroidism, which, in turn, leads to high cholesterol. I only skimmed the stuff, but it may be worth your while to read through it.

                          I plan on getting blood work done in the near future. The last time I had it done was years ago (2009, I believe). I'm curious to see what my lipid panel looks like. My 2009 numbers were any conventional doctor's dream.
                          I also asked my Doc about this. He said I could not possibly be hypothyroid because I did not present any symptoms. He would not even agree to run a thyroid panel. I may get it done myself through Direct Labs, just to eliminate that possibility. I do take iodine and selenium supplements which may or may not be helping.

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                          • #28
                            I have never heard of any 'bad type' of HDL. Both my endo and cardiologist agree that my super high HDL ( regularly 95-110) is spectacular. It's the 'type' of LDL that's important.

                            I had a VAP test that showed my LDL was 100% Pattern A (the large, fluffly kind), and at the time my doctor mentioned that he has noticed that his patients who have a high HDL and low trigs tend to also have Pattern A LDL.

                            Personally, if my doctor 'refused' to order I lab I requested, he would be my former doctor.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by emmie View Post
                              I have never heard of any 'bad type' of HDL. Both my endo and cardiologist agree that my super high HDL ( regularly 95-110) is spectacular. It's the 'type' of LDL that's important.

                              I had a VAP test that showed my LDL was 100% Pattern A (the large, fluffly kind), and at the time my doctor mentioned that he has noticed that his patients who have a high HDL and low trigs tend to also have Pattern A LDL.

                              Personally, if my doctor 'refused' to order I lab I requested, he would be my former doctor.
                              Emmie, there are two types of HDL-C which are determined by a VAP test (my doc was wrong about that point too). Here is the VAP test performed by Atherotech. Quest Diagnostics uses Atherotech for their VAP test. Large, buoyant HDL -C particles are considered more protective.

                              http://www.atherotech.com/content/th...apbrochure.pdf

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