Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bacteria in intestines reacts to red meat causing heart disease.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Bacteria in intestines reacts to red meat causing heart disease.

    Very interesting article. Apparently the real culprit in heart disease was not fat, they proposed instead that it was a little-studied chemical that is burped out by bacteria in the intestines after people eat red meat. It is quickly converted by the liver into yet another little-studied chemical called TMAO that gets into the blood and increases the risk of heart disease. A little disconcerting if true.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/he...?emc=eta1&_r=0
    Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

    https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

  • #2
    I think they obviously had an agenda beforehand, but I want to know how this TMAO does it's dastardly job. Or is it the CAFO meat?

    Here is the exerpt:

    The researchersí theory, based on their laboratory studies, is that TMAO enables cholesterol to get into artery walls and also prevents the body from excreting excess cholesterol.
    Last edited by stoney56; 04-07-2013, 11:15 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by stoney56 View Post
      I think they obviously had an agenda beforehand, but I want to know how this TMAO does it's dastardly job. Or is it the CAFO meat?

      Here is the exerpt:

      The researchers’ theory, based on their laboratory studies, is that TMAO enables cholesterol to get into artery walls and also prevents the body from excreting excess cholesterol.
      All of which is still under the assumption that cholesterol is the cause and therefore our enemy.
      "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by stoney56 View Post
        I think they obviously had an agenda beforehand, but I want to know how this TMAO does it's dastardly job. Or is it the CAFO meat?

        Here is the exerpt:

        The researchers’ theory, based on their laboratory studies, is that TMAO enables cholesterol to get into artery walls and also prevents the body from excreting excess cholesterol.
        Agreed. I'll be interested to here Mark's and Robb's feedback on this.
        Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

        https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

        Comment


        • #5
          I know Matt LaLonde has advocated using grass fed beef as his goto meat, I would imagine he has considered this as well. Here is a wiki chart of carnitine in food (some are questionable as to their status as being "food", yes I'm looking at you macaroni).

          Carnitine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          I'd like to see a comparison of grass fed to grain fed levels, but I doubt anyone has done that analysis.

          Comment


          • #6
            What got me is that they said they ran this study to confirm the evidence... from other previous badly-run and misinterpreted studies.

            Comment


            • #7
              Carnitine is pretty high in red meat compared to other meats, something like 20 times higher. I had a bottle of it in supplement form a long time ago but it didn't do much from what I remembered.

              Comment


              • #8
                The question in this is:

                "What is the firestarter that causes our body to send the fireman, i.e. cholesterol, to fix things up ?"

                Cholesterol does not sneak itself inside the artery wall for the fun of causing damages. It is sent to fix things because something messes up in this area. The root-cause of the messing-up is to be tracked and eliminated!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Carnitine does many great things for our bodies, that's a fact. You find many articles on it being heart healthy including heart muscle healthy. If it is in fact true that Carnitine turns into TMAO and TMAO causes plaque build up leading to heart attacks then that is bad. How much TMAO does one need to get heart disease? Is it truly a marker? Does it truly cause plaque? Carnitine levels in foods surprised me. Eggs have less levels than rice and bread. Cottage cheese has less than avocados. Butter, whole milk, chicken and fish have less than tempeh. Bacon (23.3 mg per 100g) is almost the same as tempeh (19.5 mg per 100g). So are the levels in Tempeh and bacon going to cause problems for both vegans and bacon eaters? I could not find how much is in organ meats. If by bad luck we have bacteria that turns high levels into artery damaging TMAO then it seems that we can go on eating organs, butter, bacon, avocados, coconut oil, fish, chicken and for vegans tempeh. I guess my main questions are: does TMAO cause problem for a fact and if yes, how much carnitine is needed to create enough TMAO to cause problem? I think I just rambled
                  Last edited by Ouaouaron; 04-08-2013, 05:01 AM.
                  An optimist is someone who falls off the Empire State Building, and after 50 floors says, 'So far so good!'
                  -Somebody funny

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    For me, the key sentence in this article is: "An association between TMAO levels in the blood and heart disease risk does not necessarily mean that one causes the other."

                    In other words, they have correlation--but not causality. It is really premature to be writing articles about it as though there's a causative effect, but that's what's done these days.

                    They also don't know which gut bacteria are responsible for the conversion. Perhaps it's unique in people predisposed to heart disease.

                    Too many unresolved questions here for any 'conclusions.'

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Appreciate everyone's feedback. Many good questions raised. I believe there will be a lot of interesting feedback on this from within the Paleo community over the next week.
                      Recent Blog: http://www.peakperformanceradio.net/...y-john-saville

                      https://www.facebook.com/PaleoJourne...?ref=bookmarks

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        this might explain the recent findings where the mummies from all over the world showed heart disease, even one predominantly eating presumably grass fed meat. This definitely is going to make me take a hard look at eating red meat everyday.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          but it didn't do much from what I remembered.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I saw this too, on TV today. What stood out to me was that the doctor was "optimistic" there would soon be a new anti-biotic we could all take to kill off this bacteria. I just wonder if the pharma companies funded the study, so they could develop a new drug we need! Again, cure all our ails with yet more wonder drugs.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Drumroll View Post
                              All of which is still under the assumption that cholesterol is the cause and therefore our enemy.
                              I'm not sure that's exactly what they're saying though.

                              Like Dr. Attia's post at MDA asserts, when those LDL particles violate the endothelium and oxidize, that's when inflammation and atherosclerosis begin. So cholesterol is not per se bad, but some lipoproteins are certainly part of the puzzle of CHD.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X