Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Bacteria in intestines reacts to red meat causing heart disease.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by laras View Post
    I saw this too, on TV today. What stood out to me was that the doctor was "optimistic" there would soon be a new anti-biotic we could all take to kill off this bacteria. I just wonder if the pharma companies funded the study, so they could develop a new drug we need! Again, cure all our ails with yet more wonder drugs.
    Yeah, not to mention a few years ago since they started treating H.pylori we were facing the possibility of it going extinct, which led a lot of people to ask if it was really a good idea to completely wipe-out bacterial a species whose role in the ecosystem of the human body is only partially known.

    Comment


    • #17
      Assuming this is a true causal relationship, which needs proving (I haven't read the article), the bacterial culprit(s) could well be adapted to flourish in the environment created by consumption of refined grains and sugars as dietary staples (Ian Spreadbury's "acellular carbohydrates" q.v.) It would be interesting and a bit poetic if eating SAD made the CW on red meat into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
      6' 2" | Age: 42 | SW: 341 | CW: 198 | GW: 180?

      “Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.”
      ― Søren Kierkegaard

      Comment


      • #18
        But is the suggestion here that we stop eating red meat; and instead eat Special K; Whole Wheat Toast and bagels and muffins? Can probiotics mitigate the production of TMAO if it is indeed problematic? What are the specific bacteria associated with the production of this compound? Not yet identified. Where do they come from? Possibly from a high carb diet? Many questions remain.
        Last edited by zebonaut; 04-08-2013, 12:29 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Anyone has links to the full text of the paper? Pop-media renderings of studies are notoriously inaccurate.

          Oh, and this: Does Dietary Choline Contribute to Heart Disease? | Mother Nature Obeyed - Weston A Price Foundation would be useful reading.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by cantare View Post
            Assuming this is a true causal relationship, which needs proving (I haven't read the article), the bacterial culprit(s) could well be adapted to flourish in the environment created by consumption of refined grains and sugars as dietary staples (Ian Spreadbury's "acellular carbohydrates" q.v.) It would be interesting and a bit poetic if eating SAD made the CW on red meat into a self-fulfilling prophecy.
            This is the best explanation I have heard yet. Although my one concern about this idea is that vegetarians that ate beef did not make TMAO. Assuming that the vegetarians in the study at a fairly grainy/sugary diet it would mean that you need both meat consumption and a high sugar diet to maintain these bacteria in the gut.
            Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

            http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by laras View Post
              I saw this too, on TV today. What stood out to me was that the doctor was "optimistic" there would soon be a new anti-biotic we could all take to kill off this bacteria. I just wonder if the pharma companies funded the study, so they could develop a new drug we need! Again, cure all our ails with yet more wonder drugs.
              And there it is. Follow the money. First you've gotta invent the disease.... then you can sell the miracle cure!

              Comment


              • #22
                Whatever the mecanisms, something is bad around red meat, this has been known for a long time! Personally I limit beef to once a week, no reason to overdo it...
                "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                - Schopenhauer

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                  Whatever the mechanisms, something is bad around red meat, this has been believed for a long time!
                  Corrected.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Finnegans Wake View Post
                    Corrected.
                    LOL, remember that "knowledge" is justified "beliefs" - and the evidence against red meat is more than justified, even if the scientists are still discussing the mechanisms behind why so many meat eaters gets ill or dies from it...
                    "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                    - Schopenhauer

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by emmie View Post
                      Too many unresolved questions here for any 'conclusions.'
                      except the study started with a foregone conclusion.

                      ZOMG!! RED MEAT KILLS!!!
                      As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                      – Ernest Hemingway

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                        LOL, remember that "knowledge" is justified "beliefs" - and the evidence against red meat is more than justified, even if the scientists are still discussing the mechanisms behind why so many meat eaters gets ill or dies from it...
                        LOL, whatever you say.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          the long study was of 10,000 patients already at risk for heart disease.

                          the article doesn't specify what risk factors, but this doesn't sound like a healthy baseline from which to draw conclusions, does it?

                          the blip on the radar of a one-off steak meal doesn't factor in the people's diets or gut bacteria before. were these "meat-eaters" eating big macs and pepperoni logs all week? or avoiding grains and eating grass-fed meat with a widely varied diet?
                          As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                          – Ernest Hemingway

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by noodletoy View Post
                            the long study was of 10,000 patients already at risk for heart disease.
                            the article doesn't specify what risk factors, but this doesn't sound like a healthy baseline from which to draw conclusions, does it?
                            the blip on the radar of a one-off steak meal doesn't factor in the people's diets or gut bacteria before. were these "meat-eaters" eating big macs and pepperoni logs all week? or avoiding grains and eating grass-fed meat with a widely varied diet?
                            Exactly. The confounding variables are all over the place in a study such as this such as obesity, diabetes. This study population is a bunch of SAD posterchildren. And the "control group" were vegans not just vegetarians. Vegans, IME, tend to be more health conscious and less junk foody than vegetarians. So you have a group of vegans who don't have the particular gut microbe that reacts with the carnetine to form the TMAO. But was this because of not eating meat or because of not eating junk?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              How about the notion that you can have all the plaque you want and never have a heart attack as long as you stand all day so your arteries are gigantic? And you can have all the plaque you want as long as you avoid the inflammation that can lead to it becoming a problem? Plaque is standard. What's not, is the plaque becoming a problem.
                              Crohn's, doing SCD

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Sorry to butt in, but even royalty in Egypt of times past were not significant carnivores. Cattle were more or less off the menu to avoid annoying Hathor, and even wild game was not a daily dietary feature. Fish was the main source of animal proteins, for commoner and royals alike. Presumably it was their high animal protein intake from cows and sheep that got the Hebrews ghettoed in Goshen to avoid offending the religious sensibilities of their new hosts. It probably also explained their famous fecundity and easy births that so dismayed the Egyptians by the time of Moses.
                                Besides, if the gut bacteria is at fault, one can change the composition of them by selection of the rest of the diet. Or, failing that, fecal transplants! UGH!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X