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Herbs vs. Antibiotics for H. Pylori

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  • #16
    Unfortunately, there are H Pylori strains resistant to antibiotics, even the multi-week triple cocktail which is commonly prescribed doesn't have a great success rate (at least it's not as good as the success rate using turmeric)

    My husband successful got rid of his H Pylori problem a few months ago with this protocol:

    1) 1 teaspoon of turmeric per day (from research, this seems to be the most potent anti H Pylori agent available)
    2) Mastic gum supplement
    3) taking HCl with meals, since H Pylori downregulates stomach acid
    4) my husband didn't do this one, but taking bismuth subsalicyte (pepto bismol is the brand name) coats the inside of the stomach lining and prevents the H Pylori from burrowing in
    5) taking DGL will both provide instant relief from ulcer pain (if you have any) by prompting the stomach to secrete more mucosal lining, something else downregulated by the H Pylori so that it can burrow into the lining more effectively.
    6) drinking OJ daily

    I have no way to know what was bothering you from the supplements you were taking, but I do know that when my husband was taking a high dose of turmeric, he had some acute and uncomfortable die-off symptoms that decreased when he lowered the turmeric to 1/2 teaspoon a day and then slowly increased it. Once the H Pylori was knocked out, he didn't need to supplement with HCl anymore. Have you noticed any changes in your digestion? Is there any chance that your bloating could be due to something else and not necessarily a reaction to the supplements?

    I'm generally an antibiotic supporter for bacterial infections, since they are usually the best option in my opinion (as long as you follow up with probiotics), but from my research turmeric has been shown to be significantly more effective in dealing with H Pylori, so my suggestion is to research this a little for yourself before you jump into it.

    Bactericidal and anti-adhesive propert... [World J Gastroenterol. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI

    Antimicrobial Activity of Curcumin against Helicobacter pylori Isolates from India and during Infections in Mice

    HELICOBACTER PYLORI - Natural treatments
    Last edited by BestBetter; 04-07-2013, 09:01 PM.

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    • #17
      I think antibiotics are the way to go on this. My husband just got diagnosed with it after having a lot of acid reflux issues. We see a functional medicine doctor, so he's pretty good about explaining herbal treatments and other ways of dealing with things vs. using antibiotics and conventional medicine. His advice in this case was the antibiotic route - H. Pylori is really, really hard to get rid of and is a main factor in causing stomach cancers, so it's not something you want to play around with. Husband's going in to be tested again after this round of antibiotics to make sure it's gone.

      I did read up on other helpful treatments, and cinnamon and broccoli is supposed to be really good against H. Pylori, so you might try making those a big part of your diet for awhile and see if it helps at all.

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      • #18
        I saw my NP yesterday. She figured I reacted to the berberine because of my extremely sensitive and torn up gut. We decided to go with the antibiotics. I will be doing three different kinds over 10 days with an additional acid suppressor. She calls it a pulse method where I take amoxicillin for the first 5 days then take the other two the last 5 days. Should be interesting. I will be taking a specific probiotic that she says can survive the antibiotics ( i think it's s. boulardii ) plus the powdered glutamine, dgl and aloe. I will start tomorrow. Thanks for all the helpful advice.

        My digestion has definitely improved. I think the herbs knocked out a fair bit of the bugs. I'm hopeful that the antibiotics will finish it off. I'm sure it was the herbs that I was reacting to. I saw a huge change by the end of the day. I'm half way into my first day of the antibiotics and so far so good.
        Favorite Mark Quote: "I train to play."

        June 2010: 168.6 -size 16
        Current: 155 - size 10/12
        Goal:135 - size 8

        My Journal

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        • #19
          I just been diagnosed with it .
          But have not noticed any symptoms but I do take probiotics & dig enzymes daily though and my diet is 100% super clean.

          Was not going to do the antibiotics but think this is the only real way to get rid of.

          So think I will be using alot of turmeric aswell I think and I heard oregano is also good .

          Any other advise?
          I have been trying to gain muscle size in gym but would this infection been effecting this for last 6months & year as I have expected more gains?

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          • #20
            Glad you went the antibiotic route. H. pylori really is kind of a big deal.

            My mom has had problems with it twice, mostly due to her insistence on a crappy chemical diet and taking Tums any time she feels even a twinge. Seriously, like on a daily basis for years, and that gives it the perfect environment to thrive. It landed her in the hospital for a week the first time, and this last time she lost 30 pounds she didn't have to spare. Couldn't eat more than a couple bites of food without vomiting. So... yeah, a big deal.

            Keep us updated!
            Durp.

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            • #21
              You know, in the recent infamous Michael Pollan article on gut bacteria in the NY Times he seems to say that H. pylori isn't all bad news and even laments the human goal of eradicating it from our intestinal ecosystem:

              Originally posted by Michael Pollan
              One bacterium commonly found in the non-Western microbiome but nearly extinct in ours is a corkscrew-shaped inhabitant of the stomach by the name of Helicobacter pylori. Dominguez-Bello’s husband, Martin Blaser, a physician and microbiologist at N.Y.U., has been studying H. pylori since the mid-1980s and is convinced that it is an endangered species, the extinction of which we may someday rue. According to the “missing microbiota hypothesis,” we depend on microbes like H. pylori to regulate various metabolic and immune functions, and their disappearance is disordering those systems. The loss is cumulative: “Each generation is passing on fewer of these microbes,” Blaser told me, with the result that the Western microbiome is being progressively impoverished.

              He calls H. pylori the “poster child” for the missing microbes and says medicine has actually been trying to exterminate it since 1983, when Australian scientists proposed that the microbe was responsible for peptic ulcers; it has since been implicated in stomach cancer as well. But H. pylori is a most complicated character, the entire spectrum of microbial good and evil rolled into one bug. Scientists learned that H. pylori also plays a role in regulating acid in the stomach. Presumably it does this to render its preferred habitat inhospitable to competitors, but the effect on its host can be salutary. People without H. pylori may not get peptic ulcers, but they frequently do suffer from acid reflux. Untreated, this can lead to Barrett’s esophagus and, eventually, a certain type of esophageal cancer, rates of which have soared in the West as H. pylori has gone missing.

              When after a recent bout of acid reflux, my doctor ordered an endoscopy, I discovered that, like most Americans today, my stomach has no H. pylori. My gastroenterologist was pleased, but after talking to Blaser, the news seemed more equivocal, because H. pylori also does us a lot of good. The microbe engages with the immune system, quieting the inflammatory response in ways that serve its own interests — to be left in peace — as well as our own. This calming effect on the immune system may explain why populations that still harbor H. pylori are less prone to allergy and asthma. Blaser’s lab has also found evidence that H. pylori plays an important role in human metabolism by regulating levels of the appetite hormone ghrelin. “When the stomach is empty, it produces a lot of ghrelin, the chemical signal to the brain to eat,” Blaser says. “Then, when it has had enough, the stomach shuts down ghrelin production, and the host feels satiated.” He says the disappearance of H. pylori may be contributing to obesity by muting these signals.

              But what about the diseases H. pylori is blamed for? Blaser says these tend to occur only late in life, and he makes the rather breathtaking suggestion that this microbe’s evolutionary role might be to help shuffle us off life’s stage once our childbearing years have passed. So important does Blaser regard this strange, paradoxical symbiont that he has proposed not one but two unconventional therapeutic interventions: inoculate children with H. pylori to give them the benefit of its services early in life, and then exterminate it with antibiotics at age 40, when it is liable to begin causing trouble.
              "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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              • #22
                I am a big fan of ginger. That stuff sits in the ground for months on end, you dig it up and leave it in a cupboard for months and still no bacteria grow on it. It's also really good for inflammation after a tough run or workout. It gets a mention in the natural medicine link. TBH though conventional medicine has saved my life on a couple of occasions so if I was struggling I would take the nuclear option as a last resort and worry about my symbiotic bacteria later.
                Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
                www.primaljoy.co.uk

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                • #23
                  Just wanted to update. The first 5 days on the antibiotics went smoothly. No side effects at all. The next 5 days were pretty rough. I was very dizzy which I guess is a normal side effect. I finished the antibiotics and I am feeling so much better. I've gone from daily pain, burning and bloating to nothing. I still get some sort of tummy trouble once a week, but I am on the road to healing! I've been able to add in probiotics through pills. I haven't tried real food probiotics yet, but want to as the healing continues.
                  Favorite Mark Quote: "I train to play."

                  June 2010: 168.6 -size 16
                  Current: 155 - size 10/12
                  Goal:135 - size 8

                  My Journal

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Momto3 View Post
                    The next 5 days were pretty rough. I was very dizzy which I guess is a normal side effect.
                    My friend has a kid recovering from a brain infection - heavy antibiotics through an IV - and he just made a quick trip to the doctor for nausea. Sounds like that kind of side effect (nausea/dizzy/vomiting) is pretty normal.
                    Durp.

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                    • #25
                      I am a doctor and hear a lot of about H. Pylori....and kudos to Drumroll for pointing out Dr. Braser's work.

                      First, having H. Pylori in your GI is not a disease process in itself. They say that about 50% of the world's population have it. With this said, I am not currently convinced of Dr. Braser's work, and many others in the field are not either. The implications he makes that lack of H Pylori leads to Barret's esophagus and to GERD have not bore out in many other strong studies, and even if it is true it is a moot point for me. Both of these conditions are relatively minor (both cause mild irritation, not death or severe pain), and he is only pointing out that a correlation exists. Both BE and GERD are multi-factorial, and rarely occur in people that were healthy to begin with. They are, in my opinion, minor diseases of the Western diet. Groks didn't get GERD.

                      With that said, there is a lot of other evidence that points to the loss of normal gut flora being a very big deal, in regards to allergy, GI health, cancer, and just about everything else. Apparently, human beings that evolved likely eating things covered in dirt, fungi, and bacteria get somewhat sick if they eat sterilized, processed, "triple-washed" food. It is MY tenant of medicine, and it's very, very simple:

                      Every organism has evolved to live a certain way. It evolved with genes for amount of movement, for food, for living style, for social cohesion, etc....the MORE you force that organism off it's evolutionary path, whether it's a bacteria or a fish or a human, the more disease processes you will stimulate. Period.

                      In the case of Pylori, t it can infect a person without big symptoms. Many patients with it are asymptomatic, and live with a mild gastritis they are likely not even aware of. It is felt that normal stomach processes and flora will prevent Pylori from getting its meal ticket to giving ulceration, acute gastritis (think rolling on the floor in pain), and its other slew of fun symptoms. Its meal ticket to this is its ability to lower the stomach pH so significantly that it takes over, and even people like Dr Braser are starting to postulate that maybe THAT part is what has changed, that being its ability to overcome normal proton pumps, push out other flora, and create disease.

                      My take home would be that NEITHER herbs or antibiotics are the way to prevention. If acute infection exists, then of course ABs would be needed. As they say though, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

                      Prevention is a system-wide thing, just like all of health is. A probiotic is a good thing to have, but give me a guy that eats his own spinach from his backyard after a mild water soak over any of that any day. Don't make a sterile environment, don't eat sterile food, eat some dirt once in awhile. For all of the stuff a Grok would have done, we forget this big one more than ever. Take a systemic approach.

                      Grok didn't have lysol wipes, triple-washed baby carrots, and antibacterial fruit wax.
                      Last edited by TheyCallMeLazarus; 06-19-2013, 09:15 AM.
                      "The soul that does not attempt flight; does not notice its chains."

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
                        Its meal ticket to this is its ability to lower the stomach pH so significantly that it takes over...
                        This is exactly why mom has such an issue with it. She takes Tums on a daily basis and was also on a PPI until her new doctor yanked her off of it. She still takes the Tums, despite my protests.

                        For all I know, I could have it, but I have no symptoms. Whenever I get heartburn, which is maybe once a year now, I take apple cider vinegar and it disappears within minutes.
                        Durp.

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