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Paleo Vs. Atkins

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  • #31
    I, too, came to Primal via Atkins--when I found that the only change I needed to make was to give up my organic peanut butter.

    I never ate 'products'--always whole foods, and I eventually gave up all grains and dairy (except butter) as I checked how I felt best.

    What I owe to Dr. Atkins is awareness of my extreme carb sensitivity--which kept me obese for most of my life. When I first read his work, I followed his advice to find one's CCL (critical carb level), and for me, it was barely 25g a day. Forty years later, I tried again, and I still have the same degree of carb sensitivity.

    However, I thrive at this low carb level and realize it is healthiest for me personally.

    Most people who 'do Atkins' are simply looking for quick weight loss and most of them don't even read the plan. Atkins himself knew a lot about obesity and nutrition. It's too bad that the Atkins industry has deteriorated over time.

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    • #32
      See the little phrases go.
      Watch their funny antics.
      The men who make them wiggle so
      Are teachers of semantics.

      The words go up the words go round
      And make a great commotion.
      But all that lies behind the sound
      Is hebetude boeotian.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by 0Angel0 View Post
        You need to do a bit more reading up on basic biochemistry before we can even debate the role and degree to which insulin plays in this.
        Taubes will be the first to tell you that he's not taken seriously by dietary "experts" with fancy-pants biochemistry degrees. Expertise in biochemistry is inversely related to acceptance of the "carbs drive insulin drives bodyfat" hypothesis. (The reason Taubes would give for the inverse relationship is different from the reason the biochemistry PhDs would give, but either way, reading up on biochemistry is not going to steer anyone towards acceppting the low-carb hypothesis about "the role and degree to which insulin plays in this.")

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        • #34
          Everyone dies! Better stop doing that whole breathing eating living thing we all do. Might result in DEATH. Duhn duhn DuuuUUDHDHDndndnngg.

          :P

          Sorry, I'm too cheerful right now.
          yay!

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          • #35
            I always find it amusing that the theorists who dislike Atkins want to argue with the people who actually followed his plan and lost weight and got healthier.

            Real life experience trumps theory.

            Like others who posted previously, my weight loss success is rooted in Atkins which adapted to Primal quite easily. Dr. Atkins was a forward thinker and his work was a huge gift to me as I had struggled with my weight all my life.
            Starting Weight: 197.5
            Current Weight: 123
            Far healthier!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by janie View Post
              I always find it amusing that the theorists who dislike Atkins want to argue with the people who actually followed his plan and lost weight and got healthier.

              Real life experience trumps theory.

              Like others who posted previously, my weight loss success is rooted in Atkins which adapted to Primal quite easily. Dr. Atkins was a forward thinker and his work was a huge gift to me as I had struggled with my weight all my life.
              Sincere congratulations on the weight loss!

              Regarding Atkins, there's such a thing as giving the right advice for the wrong reason. Restricting carbs can result in much easier weight loss than trying to directly restrict calories instead. There are a number of reasons for that. None of those reasons, however, are the Atkins-Taubes explanation that "carbs —> insulin —> bodyfat."

              Atkins (low carb) and Ornish (low fat) are very similar, IMO. By advocating restricted carbs, the Atkins diet appropriately cut out candy, soda, and other sugar-filled treats. By advocating restricted fat, the Ornish diet appropriately cut out fried foods and anything else made with toxic vegetable oil. Moreover, both diets cut out the most truly terrible foods — chips, donuts, cake, milkshakes, Oreos, etc. — since the truly most terrible foods tend to have plenty of both fat and carbs. But both diets were in some sense overly restrictive. By restricting fat, the Ornish diet punished perfectly healthful foods like egg yolks, butter, and rib-eye steaks. And by restricting carbs, the Atkins diet punished perfectly healthful foods like potatoes.

              Both got a lot of stuff right and a lot of stuff wrong. Somebody asked what Atkins got wrong. I previously gave a one-sentence summary; here's a slightly longer (but still very short) summary: Whole Health Source: The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity: a Critical Examination.
              Last edited by maurile; 04-04-2013, 10:51 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by maurile View Post
                Atkins (low carb) and Ornish (low fat) are very similar, IMO. By advocating restricted carbs, the Atkins diet appropriately cut out candy, soda, and other sugar-filled treats. By advocating restricted fat, the Ornish diet appropriately cut out fried foods and anything else made with toxic vegetable oil. Moreover, both diets cut out the most truly terrible foods — chips, donuts, cake, milkshakes, Oreos, etc. — since the truly most terrible foods tend to have plenty of both fat and carbs. But both diets were in some sense overly restrictive. By restricting fat, the Ornish diet punished perfectly healthful foods like egg yolks, butter, and rib-eye steaks. And by restricting carbs, the Atkins diet punished perfectly healthful foods like potatoes.

                Both got a lot of stuff right and a lot of stuff wrong. Somebody asked what Atkins got wrong. I previously gave a one-sentence summary; here's a slightly longer (but still very short) summary: Whole Health Source: The Carbohydrate Hypothesis of Obesity: a Critical Examination.
                Good points. However, I would like to clarify white, sweet potatoes, carrots and literally all fruit as well, are perfectly acceptable foods on Atkins.
                OTH, as far as I know Ornish never allows steak to be added back in to the diet, ever.

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                • #38
                  I've never done the Atkins diet but I'm not gonna lie, I like to drink the Atkins Mocha latte shake as a replacement for a Starbuck's Frappuccino.

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                  • #39
                    gah double post

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by maurile View Post
                      Taubes will be the first to tell you that he's not taken seriously by dietary "experts" with fancy-pants biochemistry degrees. Expertise in biochemistry is inversely related to acceptance of the "carbs drive insulin drives bodyfat" hypothesis. (The reason Taubes would give for the inverse relationship is different from the reason the biochemistry PhDs would give, but either way, reading up on biochemistry is not going to steer anyone towards acceppting the low-carb hypothesis about "the role and degree to which insulin plays in this.")
                      I didn't say get the opinions of a bunch of CW minded "experts" did I? Look up a textbook or something. Like I said if you don't think Insulin is a major player in fat mobilization and storage, and the fact that this process can be disordered in certain individuals, then we can't even begin to debate about anything further. Seriously, it's Bichem 101!

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                      • #41
                        To those of you who transitioned from Atkins into Paleo...
                        - did you notice additional weight loss after the switch?
                        - what did you take away from/add to your diet after the switch?
                        - did you see any other benefits from switching?

                        just curious... thanks!

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by maurile View Post
                          Regarding Atkins, there's such a thing as giving the right advice for the wrong reason.
                          Atkins' research and experience showed that the diet helped people lose weight and improve their health. And you're saying the the right reason was "GROK!"?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                            Atkins' research and experience showed that the diet helped people lose weight and improve their health. And you're saying the the right reason was "GROK!"?
                            I'm not sure how you got that out of anything I said.

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                            • #44
                              Doesn't matter where you fall in the "carb wars" debate. Atkins was ahead of his time in many ways and influenced health and thinking on health in a positive manner.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by maurile View Post
                                I'm not sure how you got that out of anything I said.
                                You said Atkins was right for the wrong reasons. His reasons were research and experience, but it sounds like nothing short of coming up with the original concept of paleo would have fit your bill.

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