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"Calories in / Calories Out" -- Please Stop the Madness

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  • #61
    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Milk is a whole food.

    Cream is not. It is the fatty non-homogenized stuff that floats to the top of milk.
    So homogenized milk is unprocessed, but cream skimmed from unhomogenized milk is processed?
    The Champagne of Beards

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    • #62
      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
      Milk is a whole food.

      Cream is not. It is the fatty non-homogenized stuff that floats to the top of milk.
      By the same argument, a steak is not whole food -- only the whole animal is "whole food" and parts of it are not.

      I'm not arguing for constructing a diet on the basis of butter -- I'm just pointing out that your definition of "whole food" seems remarkably fuzzy and allows you to include or exclude foods at will.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Lumifer View Post
        I'm just pointing out that your definition of "whole food" seems remarkably fuzzy and allows you to include or exclude foods at will.
        That was my point as well. Technically you could call grain- and legume-based diet "paleo," which renders the no grains/legumes/dairy rules completely arbitrary. Meat, fruit and tubers are all whole foods, but they're not the only whole foods. So in the end, Choco, you're not truly arguing just for a whole foods diet; you're arguing against limiting some whole foods.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Lumifer View Post
          I'm not arguing for constructing a diet on the basis of butter -- I'm just pointing out that your definition of "whole food" seems remarkably fuzzy and allows you to include or exclude foods at will.
          Extremely.

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          • #65
            Egg whites =/= whole food
            Egg yolks =/= whole food
            Eggshells =/= whole food

            Egg whites + egg yolks + eggshells = whole food.

            Did anyone remember to eat their eggshells today?

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            • #66
              Originally posted by RichMahogany View Post
              So homogenized milk is unprocessed, but cream skimmed from unhomogenized milk is processed?
              Homogenized milk is obviously not as good as non-homogenized milk, but most of us don't have access to non-homogenized milk. Since milk is an order of magnitude more nutritious per calorie than butter, and butter is closer in terms of nutrient density to refined sugars (as it is an isolated fat, not a food), drinking milk is A-OK while eating butter is empty calories. One is a food, the other is a cooking tool. But I appreciate you taking your time to troll me.
              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Lumifer View Post
                By the same argument, a steak is not whole food -- only the whole animal is "whole food" and parts of it are not.
                No, it isn't. That isn't even close to the same argument. You can kill a cow and eat steak onsite. You can't do that with butter. Milk is a whole food, butter is a byproduct of milk. Steak isn't a byproduct of a cow, it is the flesh of a cow. That's a straw man. Steak is nutrient-dense. Butter isn't.
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                • #68
                  Whole foods or not - some food are simply too calorie dense and should be limited if you are not doing extreme hard physical work! Pure fat like butter, oils and bacon fat, - AND pure carbs like white sugar, white flour and dried fruits, be careful they may easily make you fat and destroy your health! Putting pure fat or carbs in drinks is even worse, so beware all ye Coca-Cola and Bulletproof fans...
                  "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

                  - Schopenhauer

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                    No, it isn't. That isn't even close to the same argument. You can kill a cow and eat steak onsite. You can't do that with butter. Milk is a whole food, butter is a byproduct of milk. Steak isn't a byproduct of a cow, it is the flesh of a cow. That's a straw man. Steak is nutrient-dense. Butter isn't.
                    So what amount of manipulation, in your mind, crosses the line from "whole food" to "non-whole food"? Manipulation that can be performed "onsite"? One or two "sites"? Heat, but only to a certain degree? One implement, two implements, three implements? If I mix two "whole foods" together, am I suddenly not eating "whole foods" anymore?

                    (Also...that aint a "straw man.")

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                      Whole foods or not - some food are simply too calorie dense and should be limited if you are not doing extreme hard physical work! Pure fat like butter, oils and bacon fat, - AND pure carbs like white sugar, white flour and dried fruits, be careful they may easily make you fat and destroy your health! Putting pure fat or carbs in drinks is even worse, so beware all ye Coca-Cola and Bulletproof fans...
                      I could hang my head in shame, but +1.
                      "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                      B*tch-lite

                      Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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                      • #71
                        I can't believe this argument is still going on.

                        This is why people laugh at Paleo. Seriously. Just eat whatever dafuq you want and shut up. :/
                        Dark chocolate and coffee, running through my veins...

                        Fitocracy Workout Tracker:
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                        MFP Food Diary:
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                        (Date is New Zealand Time UTC+ 12hours)

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Lumifer View Post
                          By the same argument, a steak is not whole food -- only the whole animal is "whole food" and parts of it are not.

                          I'm not arguing for constructing a diet on the basis of butter -- I'm just pointing out that your definition of "whole food" seems remarkably fuzzy and allows you to include or exclude foods at will.
                          I actually agree that milk is a whole food while cream isn't. Cream definitely makes a more frequent appearance in my diet than milk does though. Extracted fats, tallow, lard, coconut oil, butter, etc have a place in a healthy natural diet, and they are foods, but not whole foods. I eat high fat low carb and I still use added fats as condiments and cooking tools not meals.

                          The definition of "whole foods" is inherently fuzzy. I mean some things are obvious like an apple or a zucchini. Parts of animals are also whole foods. You maybe able to eat a whole(ish) rabbit but have fun trying to eat a whole cow. Still meat and the fat that accompanies it is close enough to a whole food for me. Isolated rendered tallow is amazing (both for eating and slathering on my skin) but it's still not a whole food. Neither is cream.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            No, it isn't. That isn't even close to the same argument. You can kill a cow and eat steak onsite. You can't do that with butter.
                            What? Milk the cow, let milk stand for few hours, you'll have a nice thick layer of cream on top. Take that cream, whip it (right here, "onsite", next to the cow and the milk bucket) and you have butter.

                            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            ...butter is a byproduct of milk.
                            ..byproduct? "I don't think this word means what you think it means" :-D

                            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            Steak is nutrient-dense. Butter isn't.
                            We're talking about what is a "whole food" and what is not. Nutrient density has nothing to do with it.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
                              How are you ever going to gain weight low carb? The fat satiety system in your body is flawless, you become very nauseated when you had too much.
                              Says a 15-year old boy...

                              Originally posted by Lumifer View Post
                              What? Milk the cow, let milk stand for few hours, you'll have a nice thick layer of cream on top. Take that cream, whip it (right here, "onsite", next to the cow and the milk bucket) and you have butter.



                              ..byproduct? "I don't think this word means what you think it means" :-D



                              We're talking about what is a "whole food" and what is not. Nutrient density has nothing to do with it.
                              Perhaps cream is the real food and milk is just the byproduct of skimming of the most easily-available layer of cream.
                              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
                                you might be suffering from soap box blindness too chocotaco,

                                I'll digress;

                                the same website info that everybody else was quoting told you what the average american consumes, not me.

                                I never once in my post claimed any link between carbs and obesity.

                                I never once in my post claimed what type of diet 'this' is.

                                I never said there where any problems

                                All I was mearly trying to point out was that derpamix was falsely using a study to further his point of view (which is that carbs are off the hook when it comes to obesity problems), I was trying to point out that the study actually showed that carbs ARE NOT off the hook and a very much instigated, as is FAT, as the study shows. the following is a summary of the rebuttal to derpamix

                                The USA has a lower percentage of carbs consumed in their diet compared to other countries. but because of the USA's greatly increased calorie intake this actually leads them to eating more carbs per day than most of the rest of the world.

                                have you taken your blind fold off yet chocotaco, we are agreeing/saying the exact same thing.
                                You missed the point entirely. I know you badly want to demonize carbs in the name of your holy grail ketosis, but try to keep up. This thread should have been finished long ago. The fact it was even posted was pretty absurd.
                                Make America Great Again

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